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Post by sharptooth on Aug 31, 2020 13:33:07 GMT -7
This thread should be in general discussion IMO. It has nothing to do with the Oilers and is just an annoying distraction from Oilers topics.  Edit) just seen this thread was started by our controversial fan Oilfanincali. A legit fan whom I am glad is aboard. Raises good discussion, whether liked or not and keeps us posted on the farm in Bakers.... Still not Oil discussion though. Thread should be moved. I think you are mistaken. I believe this thread was started by calioilersfan. Annoying indeed! That’s why I haven’t replied till now. |
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Post by SuperDave17 on Aug 31, 2020 14:47:47 GMT -7
I'll leave it here for now, since the thread invites a lot of commentary on McDavid himself, and questions about to what extent a supporting cast weakens or strengthens individual player comparisons.
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Post by mrtea on Sept 4, 2020 18:14:02 GMT -7
So tell me, how much farther did McKinnon's leadership take the Avs? Let's face it the Avs are a powerhouse of a team with a potent offense, I'm quite sure McDavid would have done just as well if not better. The bottom line is McKinnon is considered by many as one of the best players in the world while McDavid is considered by many to be the best player in the world. I don't think these play offs have changed anything in that regard. McKinnon is awesome, but McDavid is ......McDavid!!!  |
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Post by oilyfan on Sept 7, 2020 16:36:05 GMT -7
Well, MacKinnon will be the Hart Trophy winner this year (and deservedly so) but T - I wouldn't question his leadership. He took his team a lot farther than McDavid took ours, and unfortunately both teams are plagued with the same thing - no goaltending (at least - next level stuff). If we had Demko, or they had Demko, I guarantee you that team (the one with Demko) would still be playing right now.
I"ll take McDavid all day, don't get me wrong - but MacKinnon is a horse and IMO he does not get seen a lot here therefore we just write him off. This guy is a legit superstar and I already predicted he'd win the Hart trophy this year and most likely the Ted Lindsay trophy as well. Most here think it should be Leon - forgetting Nate played more than half a season without Ratanen and Landeskog, and Kadri struggled (I know, I had him on my team, didn't help me much lol). I don't think it will even be that close - I think MacKinnon wins both rather easily.
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Post by mrtea on Sept 7, 2020 18:17:49 GMT -7
Well, MacKinnon will be the Hart Trophy winner this year (and deservedly so) but T - I wouldn't question his leadership. He took his team a lot farther than McDavid took ours, and unfortunately both teams are plagued with the same thing - no goaltending (at least - next level stuff). If we had Demko, or they had Demko, I guarantee you that team (the one with Demko) would still be playing right now. I"ll take McDavid all day, don't get me wrong - but MacKinnon is a horse and IMO he does not get seen a lot here therefore we just write him off. This guy is a legit superstar and I already predicted he'd win the Hart trophy this year and most likely the Ted Lindsay trophy as well. Most here think it should be Leon - forgetting Nate played more than half a season without Ratanen and Landeskog, and Kadri struggled (I know, I had him on my team, didn't help me much lol). I don't think it will even be that close - I think MacKinnon wins both rather easily. I wasn't questioning McKinnon's leadership, I was trying to show that McDavid's leadership shouldn't be discounted for not leading the Oilers farther. McKinnon is a good leader on a very good team and they still were beaten by a team that was more complete. If you read my post again you will see I say he is called one of the best players in the world and later I say McKinnon is awesome. That post was hyping McDavid while still respecting McKinnon. I don't see anywhere where I wrote McKinnon off or say he is not legit.
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Post by drtaf on Sept 7, 2020 19:54:15 GMT -7
I think the fact that Avs were beaten by a team that imo are at the very least the 4th best team still standing proves the point that T, myself and others are trying to say which is: "It doesn't matter how awesome an individual is (skill or leadership-wise) Hockey is a team sport and a team is only as good as the sum of its parts and that to project a team's success as an indication of an individual's talent, leadership skills or whatever is plain stupid! And for the record, I made the point that to say Mackinnon is the heart and soul of the Avs is to diminish the impact of Landeskog, well guess who missed that game 7 defeat? and guess which leader didn't get a single point in the most important game 7 final? I also think Drai should win both the Hart and Lindsey as these are "individual honours" and based on previous voting methods and traditions he ticks all the metrics where as McKinnon doesnt(as I explained before). I wont be too upset if he doesnt win the Hart as it will further ingrain in me that hockey writers are tards and if the players vote McKinnon then so be it, he certainly deserves their respect as he is indeed an awesome player and had an awesome playoffs but just as he wasn't individually responsible for the Avs failure or success, neither was McDavid. both did what they could and fell short. There will always be next year (Hopefully)!
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Post by oilyfan on Sept 8, 2020 6:35:13 GMT -7
Well, MacKinnon will be the Hart Trophy winner this year (and deservedly so) but T - I wouldn't question his leadership. He took his team a lot farther than McDavid took ours, and unfortunately both teams are plagued with the same thing - no goaltending (at least - next level stuff). If we had Demko, or they had Demko, I guarantee you that team (the one with Demko) would still be playing right now. I"ll take McDavid all day, don't get me wrong - but MacKinnon is a horse and IMO he does not get seen a lot here therefore we just write him off. This guy is a legit superstar and I already predicted he'd win the Hart trophy this year and most likely the Ted Lindsay trophy as well. Most here think it should be Leon - forgetting Nate played more than half a season without Ratanen and Landeskog, and Kadri struggled (I know, I had him on my team, didn't help me much lol). I don't think it will even be that close - I think MacKinnon wins both rather easily. I wasn't questioning McKinnon's leadership, I was trying to show that McDavid's leadership shouldn't be discounted for not leading the Oilers farther. McKinnon is a good leader on a very good team and they still were beaten by a team that was more complete. If you read my post again you will see I say he is called one of the best players in the world and later I say McKinnon is awesome. That post was hyping McDavid while still respecting McKinnon. I don't see anywhere where I wrote McKinnon off or say he is not legit. Yeah but where's the fun in that?? Sorry T - guess I"m still a bit flabbergasted at some of the folks here thinking I was / am (and they probably aren't wrong) off my rocker for thinking Leon didn't have a chance against Nate for the awards this year. We don't find out until Octoberish but he'll win and he deserves to win.
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Post by drtaf on Sept 8, 2020 12:06:35 GMT -7
Not crazy at all, in some ways McK deserves the accolades more than Drai since its hard to award drai an MVP when he's the second best player on his own team (Call it the Malkin effect). but even Malkin won the hart and lindsey one year so IMO this is the year drai gets his. If McK beats him then fine, but playoffs are not counted and its hard to argue that McK isnt helped by being on an already pretty stacked team. Personally IMO, If you went by who is "most valuable" The breadman deserves it as did Hall a few years back when a lot of people thought McK should have won then.
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Post by mrtea on Sept 8, 2020 16:41:07 GMT -7
I wasn't questioning McKinnon's leadership, I was trying to show that McDavid's leadership shouldn't be discounted for not leading the Oilers farther. McKinnon is a good leader on a very good team and they still were beaten by a team that was more complete. If you read my post again you will see I say he is called one of the best players in the world and later I say McKinnon is awesome. That post was hyping McDavid while still respecting McKinnon. I don't see anywhere where I wrote McKinnon off or say he is not legit. Yeah but where's the fun in that?? Sorry T - guess I"m still a bit flabbergasted at some of the folks here thinking I was / am (and they probably aren't wrong) off my rocker for thinking Leon didn't have a chance against Nate for the awards this year. We don't find out until Octoberish but he'll win and he deserves to win. Something to remember Oily is that this thread was started accusing McDavid of not being a good leader or captain, no passion, no heart and just playing for the money etc. by a poster on their first post based solely on their opinion. I thought then and still do that it is suspicious behavior from a first time poster conveniently timed right after first round eliminations. So my response is a little bit of tongue and cheek by basing my praise of McDavid based solely on my opinion. If it is good enough for the first time poster then it is good enough for me....and my opinion.
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Post by drtaf on Sept 9, 2020 12:29:42 GMT -7
I think it triggered a few people including me so i guess it had the desired effect;-). However, I believe posts that go against the norms of constant praise of oilers and oiler players are fine if like Oily's they are at least based on legit reasons. McK may well deserve to be Hart and Lindsey winner this year. Does that make him better or worth more than McD (or even Drai) Nope, not IMO
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Post by oildude on Sept 11, 2020 9:10:24 GMT -7
Simple answer: Whenever anyone want to suggest another player in the league is the best they always end up comparing to McDavid:
Mac in Colorado
Gaudreau in Calgary(not even kidding)
Mathews(lol)
Crosby
OV
ect
Everyone of them gets lined up against McD....McD happens to be the best player and maybe best athlete in pro sports.
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Post by drtaf on Sept 11, 2020 10:36:47 GMT -7
Exactly, I think the proof is when any player, coach, GM describes him they always refer to him as best in the league. Guys can have fantastic seasons like McK or Drai or Kuch but nobody really questions anymore who is currently best player in league and when he starts getting the respect from the refs (it tokk crosby 10 years), this discussion will be put to bed
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Post by drtaf on Sept 11, 2020 20:06:46 GMT -7
I wasn't questioning McKinnon's leadership, I was trying to show that McDavid's leadership shouldn't be discounted for not leading the Oilers farther. McKinnon is a good leader on a very good team and they still were beaten by a team that was more complete. If you read my post again you will see I say he is called one of the best players in the world and later I say McKinnon is awesome. That post was hyping McDavid while still respecting McKinnon. I don't see anywhere where I wrote McKinnon off or say he is not legit. Yeah but where's the fun in that?? Sorry T - guess I"m still a bit flabbergasted at some of the folks here thinking I was / am (and they probably aren't wrong) off my rocker for thinking Leon didn't have a chance against Nate for the awards this year. We don't find out until Octoberish but he'll win and he deserves to win. So Mck won the lady bing , traditionally, this has been the “consolation prize so I think Drai’s chances just went up slightly but again it’s been a very strange year so who knows??🤷♂️ |
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