|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 21, 2021 15:20:13 GMT -7
It's not my math. www.capfriendly.com/buyout-calculator/james-nealI know it isn't your math fogs but do I have to spell out every word? I will re-phrase to "according to Fogolin's posting", is that better? However, it is you suggesting we bribe Seattle with a 1st round pick and Lagesson......that would be a horrible thing for the Oilers future in my opinion. We gave a 3rd to Calgary I believe and was it two second rounders to Detroit, we don't need to be giving up more of our future picks or players like Lagesson to get zilch in return other than cap relief. That is my point. Have a point to your posts, and get to it. I won't get confused. Tippett's doing a fantastic job these days, eh?
|
|
|
|
Post by neufab94 on Mar 23, 2021 15:06:47 GMT -7
Have a point to your posts, and get to it. I won't get confused. Tippett's doing a fantastic job these days, eh? Hey fog, if Tippet and Holland would have been here they the organization would not have sold out Ryan Smyth 
|
|
|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 23, 2021 16:18:14 GMT -7
Have a point to your posts, and get to it. I won't get confused. Tippett's doing a fantastic job these days, eh? Hey fog, if Tippet and Holland would have been here they the organization would not have sold out Ryan Smyth hahhaahahaaa...Nice! Nah, he was demanding overpayment and found somebody that would give it to him!
|
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 23, 2021 16:20:45 GMT -7
The maths is fine, where we differ is what we both think $4M will buy. You say another Kass, I say we may get another “real top 6” in this flat cap scenario.Regarding the buyout option, something worth noting. Having $3.8M extra while the cap is flat is considerably more valuable than a 1.9 buyout when the cap has probably started to go up considerably
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Mar 23, 2021 16:31:17 GMT -7
The maths is fine, where we differ is what we both think $4M will buy. You say another Kass, I say we may get another “real top 6” in this flat cap scenario.Regarding the buyout option, something worth noting. Having $3.8M extra while the cap is flat is considerably more valuable than a 1.9 buyout when the cap has probably started to go up considerably
It's rare that a legit top 6 type is available at 4M. There are only so many Toffoli's (4.25) out there. You're likely to get a Doonski at 3.9 or a Ferland or Connolly at 3.5.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackhawk216 on Mar 23, 2021 17:14:22 GMT -7
Have a point to your posts, and get to it. I won't get confused. Tippett's doing a fantastic job these days, eh? The point to my post is that more than likely, the James Neal situation is what it is, and unless we can find a Chiarelli like GM out there to take him off our hands, it is an issue that we are stuck with, but we have had worse issues in the past so I don't really see what the fuss is about. As stated several times, when he is in the team, agreed, he isn't worth 5.75m, but then again, Lucic isn't worth 6m with a harder to digest contract. Neal when on the ice, doesn't hurt the team, and can contribute an assist or a goal here and there, and from what I read is somewhat of a team leader in the dressing room, and once more I will repeat, could be useful to the Oilers come play off time. And yes, you can't avoid having a dig can you.............Tippet is doing better, but then again so is Mike Smith, and as we know, the old saying is "show me a good goalie, and I will show you a good coach".......right? I have never played a game of hockey in my life, but if I was the Oilers coach, and had Smith playing like he has been doing, Nurse and Barrie virtually two of the best NHL defenders currently (at least stats wise), Larsson playing out of his skin (or for a new contract), and Batman and Robin up front supported by the Finnish wonder boy..............I would be doing a fantastic job too. I want Dave Tippet to succeed like he has never done before...........but every coach needs the ammunition so to do, right?
|
|
|
|
Post by yuke on Mar 23, 2021 17:19:32 GMT -7
The maths is fine, where we differ is what we both think $4M will buy. You say another Kass, I say we may get another “real top 6” in this flat cap scenario.Regarding the buyout option, something worth noting. Having $3.8M extra while the cap is flat is considerably more valuable than a 1.9 buyout when the cap has probably started to go up considerably
It's rare that a legit top 6 type is available at 4M. There are only so many Toffoli's (4.25) out there. You're likely to get a Doonski at 3.9 or a Ferland or Connolly at 3.5.
Or at his current pace, T Hall |
|
|
|
Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Mar 23, 2021 17:20:31 GMT -7
It's rare that a legit top 6 type is available at 4M. There are only so many Toffoli's (4.25) out there. You're likely to get a Doonski at 3.9 or a Ferland or Connolly at 3.5.
Or at his current pace, Tayler Hall Yeah, he may actually be a possibility. Not sure I want him though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
|
|
Post by yuke on Mar 23, 2021 17:27:42 GMT -7
Or at his current pace, Tayler Hall Yeah, he may actually be a possibility. Not sure I want him though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Agreed, he is a magnet to bad hockey teams. Be it his fault or not, it is happening. |
|
|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 23, 2021 20:10:28 GMT -7
Have a point to your posts, and get to it. I won't get confused. Tippett's doing a fantastic job these days, eh? The point to my post is that more than likely, the James Neal situation is what it is, and unless we can find a Chiarelli like GM out there to take him off our hands, it is an issue that we are stuck with, but we have had worse issues in the past so I don't really see what the fuss is about. As stated several times, when he is in the team, agreed, he isn't worth 5.75m, but then again, Lucic isn't worth 6m with a harder to digest contract. Neal when on the ice, doesn't hurt the team, and can contribute an assist or a goal here and there, and from what I read is somewhat of a team leader in the dressing room, and once more I will repeat, could be useful to the Oilers come play off time. And yes, you can't avoid having a dig can you.............Tippet is doing better, but then again so is Mike Smith, and as we know, the old saying is "show me a good goalie, and I will show you a good coach".......right? I have never played a game of hockey in my life, but if I was the Oilers coach, and had Smith playing like he has been doing, Nurse and Barrie virtually two of the best NHL defenders currently (at least stats wise), Larsson playing out of his skin (or for a new contract), and Batman and Robin up front supported by the Finnish wonder boy..............I would be doing a fantastic job too. I want Dave Tippet to succeed like he has never done before...........but every coach needs the ammunition so to do, right? But, when we lost 3 in a row to Toronto, i didn't notice any Barrie or Drai or McD or Larsson threads, did I? No, it was all the coach's fault...again...after decades of this nonsense. But, nobody buys Tippett jerseys, so it is what it is. If you have players that don't want to do it, or a roster constructed that cannot do it, then the coach doesn't have much to work with. Neal could be useful in the playoffs, I agree. The question is what is the best use of his cap space going forward. I don't think Neal is the best use, so I suggest a different solution.
|
|
|
|
Post by neufab94 on Mar 23, 2021 21:16:05 GMT -7
When I look at the Oilers roster I see Neal, Chiasson and Turris and the on ice roster has room for 1 of them when everyone is healthy. Neal is a true professional and of the three the most trusted of the group to be a benefit for the taxi squad. I like all 3 players and Neal would be judged different if he was paid Turris money but we are all happier with him than Lucic. I don't think any of us see him in the long term plan.
Neal is good for the taxi squad and a good professional if we need a call up. I don't think that the expansion draft will help poor managers out of their bad contracts as much as fans hope. I think that often in the NHL when coaches are fired it's nothing more than a publicity stunt by the GM so he can save his own Fogolin2 for a few years when really the coach should stay but the GM should go! Both Alberta teams... and many more teams are guilty of this.
|
|
|
|
Post by AlwaysOil on Mar 23, 2021 21:44:04 GMT -7
When I look at the Oilers roster I see Neal, Chiasson and Turris and the on ice roster has room for 1 of them when everyone is healthy. Neal is a true professional and of the three the most trusted of the group to be a benefit for the taxi squad. I like all 3 players and Neal would be judged different if he was paid Turris money but we are all happier with him than Lucic. I don't think any of us see him in the long term plan. Neal is good for the taxi squad and a good professional if we need a call up. I don't think that the expansion draft will help poor managers out of their bad contracts as much as fans hope. I think that often in the NHL when coaches are fired it's nothing more than a publicity stunt by the GM so he can save his own Fogolin2 for a few years when really the coach should stay but the GM should go! Both Alberta teams... and many more teams are guilty of this. I was once asked in a job interview what I thought my role was. I said “to make you look good, even if you mess up”. There was a little more explaining what I meant, but I did get the job.
|
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 24, 2021 9:43:41 GMT -7
Or at his current pace, Tayler Hall Yeah, he may actually be a possibility. Not sure I want him though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would say under normal circumstances it would be impossible to get a top 6 for $4M, but these aren't normal circumstances and wont be for 2 more years. We all saw players last off season take big haircuts when the normal frenzy didn't happen because of the cap freeze. In retrospect Hall was smart to take the $8M from buffalo early because if he waited he would have ended up with far less. I'd sign Hall in a heartbeat for $4M but honestly dont think that will happen as i'm sure someone will offer him $6+ min, but hey it is strange times! Personally, I wouldn't throw anywhere near $4M at Ferland or Donskoi? Both have been great players in past but i think they're too risky now and Ferland is basically Kass2.0 with major concussion issues that may not see him ever play again? Some teams already out of the race are already shuffling their rosters so that they have nothing left over to give to Seattle. Major rumours that Connor Garland is up for sale at under $800k and is still RFA after this year? What would we need to give to get him outta Phoenix? Is he a 25yr old late bloomer or a 1 season flash in the pan? Debrusk is another I'd go after heavily. We also have to think about who we leave unprotected and who is likely to be snapped up by the Kraken as well. KH will need his head on a swivel to keep up with what's going on up to TDL and in off season, but glad he's the one in control not me! LOL!
|
|
|
|
Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Mar 24, 2021 9:46:53 GMT -7
Yeah, he may actually be a possibility. Not sure I want him though. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I would say under normal circumstances it would be impossible to get a top 6 for $4M, but these aren't normal circumstances and wont be for 2 more years. We all saw players last off season take big haircuts when the normal frenzy didn't happen because of the cap freeze. In retrospect Hall was smart to take the $8M from buffalo early because if he waited he would have ended up with far less. I'd sign Hall in a heartbeat for $4M but honestly dont think that will happen as i'm sure someone will offer him $6+ min, but hey it is strange times! Personally, I wouldn't throw anywhere near $4M at Ferland or Donskoi? Both have been great players in past but i think they're too risky now and Ferland is basically Kass2.0 with major concussion issues that may not see him ever play again? Some teams already out of the race are already shuffling their rosters so that they have nothing left over to give to Seattle. Major rumours that Connor Garland is up for sale at under $800k and is still RFA after this year? What would we need to give to get him outta Phoenix? Is he a 25yr old late bloomer or a 1 season flash in the pan? Debrusk is another I'd go after heavily. We also have to think about who we leave unprotected and who is likely to be snapped up by the Kraken as well. KH will need his head on a swivel to keep up with what's going on up to TDL and in off season, but glad he's the one in control not me! LOL! Garland likely costs us a A prospect or a first round draft pick plus B prospect. DeBrusk would be awesome. Hopefully we can get him for cheap because he’s fallen out of favour with Boston. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
|
|
|
Post by neufab94 on Mar 24, 2021 16:05:50 GMT -7
When I look at the Oilers roster I see Neal, Chiasson and Turris and the on ice roster has room for 1 of them when everyone is healthy. Neal is a true professional and of the three the most trusted of the group to be a benefit for the taxi squad. I like all 3 players and Neal would be judged different if he was paid Turris money but we are all happier with him than Lucic. I don't think any of us see him in the long term plan. Neal is good for the taxi squad and a good professional if we need a call up. I don't think that the expansion draft will help poor managers out of their bad contracts as much as fans hope. I think that often in the NHL when coaches are fired it's nothing more than a publicity stunt by the GM so he can save his own Fogolin2 for a few years when really the coach should stay but the GM should go! Both Alberta teams... and many more teams are guilty of this. I was once asked in a job interview what I thought my role was. I said “to make you look good, even if you mess up”. There was a little more explaining what I meant, but I did get the job. Even though Tippet has done well I would not say that Todd McLellan was a worse coach. McLellan actually did his part to make PC look good. Quinn, Renney, and Hitchmale chicken are all reputable coaches with loosing records in Edmonton. Things are often backwards and Edmonton is a great example that coaching was NOT the biggest issue in Edmonton and the same thing happens elsewhere.
|
|
|
|
Post by blackhawk216 on Mar 24, 2021 19:33:51 GMT -7
The point to my post is that more than likely, the James Neal situation is what it is, and unless we can find a Chiarelli like GM out there to take him off our hands, it is an issue that we are stuck with, but we have had worse issues in the past so I don't really see what the fuss is about. As stated several times, when he is in the team, agreed, he isn't worth 5.75m, but then again, Lucic isn't worth 6m with a harder to digest contract. Neal when on the ice, doesn't hurt the team, and can contribute an assist or a goal here and there, and from what I read is somewhat of a team leader in the dressing room, and once more I will repeat, could be useful to the Oilers come play off time. And yes, you can't avoid having a dig can you.............Tippet is doing better, but then again so is Mike Smith, and as we know, the old saying is "show me a good goalie, and I will show you a good coach".......right? I have never played a game of hockey in my life, but if I was the Oilers coach, and had Smith playing like he has been doing, Nurse and Barrie virtually two of the best NHL defenders currently (at least stats wise), Larsson playing out of his skin (or for a new contract), and Batman and Robin up front supported by the Finnish wonder boy..............I would be doing a fantastic job too. I want Dave Tippet to succeed like he has never done before...........but every coach needs the ammunition so to do, right? But, when we lost 3 in a row to Toronto, i didn't notice any Barrie or Drai or McD or Larsson threads, did I? No, it was all the coach's fault...again...after decades of this nonsense. But, nobody buys Tippett jerseys, so it is what it is. If you have players that don't want to do it, or a roster constructed that cannot do it, then the coach doesn't have much to work with. Neal could be useful in the playoffs, I agree. The question is what is the best use of his cap space going forward. I don't think Neal is the best use, so I suggest a different solution. Not sure why you seem to be obsessed with what I post, or maybe we just like each other  .........but you seem to be under the impression that I am the only guy on here ever to be critical of Dave Tippet............and no doubt you will be able to show me my postings where I stated it was all the coach's fault when we lost 3 in a row v Toronto........you won't of course, because unless I am suffering from loss of memory, I don't recall posting any such thing......so why single me out? But hey, maybe you missed all the posts from others on here who basically held Tippet responsible for our play in embarrassment v Chicago last season? The team did not play well, but Tipp took the brunt of the criticism......and perhaps rightly so for breaking up what at the time was perhaps the best line in the NHL, and refusing to put them back together as we got worse the further into the series we went. I did blame him for playing Kosk I think for 13 straight games, but I was wrong so to do, as of course Smith was injured, and when Skinner did at last play, I then realised why Tipp had played Kosk for those 13 straight games.......but having said that, maybe had Skinner been allowed a game or so earlier, his confidence could have been a bit higher.......and when cajoled by you into identifying which game I would have played Skinner in, which I did..........strangely enough you went quiet on that subject. Get over yourself Fogs, and start appreciating that others may have opinions that differ from yours and they may just be worthy of consideration. We are stuck with James Neal & his contract whether we like it or not, unless we are going to give away (as you seemed to be suggesting) part of our future. Glad you agree that he could be useful come play off time. Him and Chiasson were just about the only two players v Chicago who actually raised or maintained there games from the regular season. We should be happy..........those Flames can't handle the Senators at all. And if the Oilers are ever going to win another cup again, we had better make it quick, as Ottawa are going to be one hell of a team in two/three years from now.
|
|
|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 24, 2021 20:15:19 GMT -7
But, when we lost 3 in a row to Toronto, i didn't notice any Barrie or Drai or McD or Larsson threads, did I? No, it was all the coach's fault...again...after decades of this nonsense. But, nobody buys Tippett jerseys, so it is what it is. If you have players that don't want to do it, or a roster constructed that cannot do it, then the coach doesn't have much to work with. Neal could be useful in the playoffs, I agree. The question is what is the best use of his cap space going forward. I don't think Neal is the best use, so I suggest a different solution. Not sure why you seem to be obsessed with what I post, or maybe we just like each other .........but you seem to be under the impression that I am the only guy on here ever to be critical of Dave Tippet............and no doubt you will be able to show me my postings where I stated it was all the coach's fault when we lost 3 in a row v Toronto........you won't of course, because unless I am suffering from loss of memory, I don't recall posting any such thing......so why single me out? But hey, maybe you missed all the posts from others on here who basically held Tippet responsible for our play in embarrassment v Chicago last season? The team did not play well, but Tipp took the brunt of the criticism......and perhaps rightly so for breaking up what at the time was perhaps the best line in the NHL, and refusing to put them back together as we got worse the further into the series we went. I did blame him for playing Kosk I think for 13 straight games, but I was wrong so to do, as of course Smith was injured, and when Skinner did at last play, I then realised why Tipp had played Kosk for those 13 straight games.......but having said that, maybe had Skinner been allowed a game or so earlier, his confidence could have been a bit higher.......and when cajoled by you into identifying which game I would have played Skinner in, which I did..........strangely enough you went quiet on that subject. Get over yourself Fogs, and start appreciating that others may have opinions that differ from yours and they may just be worthy of consideration. We are stuck with James Neal & his contract whether we like it or not, unless we are going to give away (as you seemed to be suggesting) part of our future. Glad you agree that he could be useful come play off time. Him and Chiasson were just about the only two players v Chicago who actually raised or maintained there games from the regular season. We should be happy..........those Flames can't handle the Senators at all. And if the Oilers are ever going to win another cup again, we had better make it quick, as Ottawa are going to be one hell of a team in two/three years from now. Ok. I'm happy.
|
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 25, 2021 9:12:37 GMT -7
For the record, I think it was me and 1-bit that said Tipp was out-coached against Chicago and TO and I'm still not convinced he can lead us to the promised land? He will be given a fair chance this season and next season to prove us wrong and all indicators suggest he will have an even better squad to work with next year. I did state I hope he proves us wrong, but if we are not pushing conf finals this or next year, then either he goes or KH goes because reality is: it's either non-effective coaching or, the squad isn't good enough to propel a team with 2 hart trophy winners in their prime to Stanley cup contention. Many on here have stated that we can't afford to waste the McD/Drai years because most of us know that this kind of opportunity may only come around every 20-30 yrs or so and we will all want something to bask in 10yrs from now when the inevitable slide into mediocrity or worse happens when McD and Drai leave/retire.
|
|
|
|
Post by windsoroiler on Mar 25, 2021 9:52:18 GMT -7
For the record, I think it was me and 1-bit that said Tipp was out-coached against Chicago and TO and I'm still not convinced he can lead us to the promised land? He will be given a fair chance this season and next season to prove us wrong and all indicators suggest he will have an even better squad to work with next year. I did state I hope he proves us wrong, but if we are not pushing conf finals this or next year, then either he goes or KH goes because reality is: it's either non-effective coaching or, the squad isn't good enough to propel a team with 2 hart trophy winners in their prime to Stanley cup contention. Many on here have stated that we can't afford to waste the McD/Drai years because most of us know that this kind of opportunity may only come around every 20-30 yrs or so and we will all want something to bask in 10yrs from now when the inevitable slide into mediocrity or worse happens when McD and Drai leave/retire.
For me the issue was him not putting together the dynamite line. But maybe McD wants to play with Nuge or Drai. We don't know that.
I believe the home teams (us and TO) were at a disadvantage with the play in. Really do. Teams that go on the road block out the noise, when you play at home without a crowd and with everything going on the team was not ready enough. Plus neither of our goalies played well. It's a team effort but your goalies need to bail you out once in a while in the big games. Crawford did for the Hawks that one game 100%. And that makes a difference.
Lastly the loss of Cave I think weighed on the team. Yes they want to play for him but that can either be a good or bad thing. When Lars loss his dad he didn;t play well for a couple of years. We seen it first hand. Now he is back to what he should be. Everyone is affected differently. So we could let Tip off the hook.
TO played as good as they could against us this year in those 3 games, then they lost 6 of 7. They got bounces. Then it was back to reality for them.
|
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 25, 2021 12:13:08 GMT -7
For the record, I think it was me and 1-bit that said Tipp was out-coached against Chicago and TO and I'm still not convinced he can lead us to the promised land? He will be given a fair chance this season and next season to prove us wrong and all indicators suggest he will have an even better squad to work with next year. I did state I hope he proves us wrong, but if we are not pushing conf finals this or next year, then either he goes or KH goes because reality is: it's either non-effective coaching or, the squad isn't good enough to propel a team with 2 hart trophy winners in their prime to Stanley cup contention. Many on here have stated that we can't afford to waste the McD/Drai years because most of us know that this kind of opportunity may only come around every 20-30 yrs or so and we will all want something to bask in 10yrs from now when the inevitable slide into mediocrity or worse happens when McD and Drai leave/retire.
For me the issue was him not putting together the dynamite line. But maybe McD wants to play with Nuge or Drai. We don't know that.
I believe the home teams (us and TO) were at a disadvantage with the play in. Really do. Teams that go on the road block out the noise, when you play at home without a crowd and with everything going on the team was not ready enough. Plus neither of our goalies played well. It's a team effort but your goalies need to bail you out once in a while in the big games. Crawford did for the Hawks that one game 100%. And that makes a difference.
Lastly the loss of Cave I think weighed on the team. Yes they want to play for him but that can either be a good or bad thing. When Lars loss his dad he didn;t play well for a couple of years. We seen it first hand. Now he is back to what he should be. Everyone is affected differently. So we could let Tip off the hook.
TO played as good as they could against us this year in those 3 games, then they lost 6 of 7. They got bounces. Then it was back to reality for them.
All really good points to think about and I could easily be wrong about Tipp. I seemed to be very much in the minority when i stated pound for pound i believed we had as much talent as TO and this is why I queried Tipp's overall effectiveness, as i felt TO were getting more out of their "talent", especially lower end talent, than we were. Most here felt TO/Keefe had more talent to work with and hence they overpowered us but when i look at the line ups i see us being very close in overall talent with them having a minor edge in some quarters and us having edge in others. I don't think either is quite ready to contend yet, but I feel that either this year or next, we should be in more of a position to do so, but that will depend on KH upgrading the team and Tipp using those upgrades to find the winning formula. As for Chi,we got caught off-guard and i have no real idea why, but it does happen (see TB vs CBJ). I will say however, good teams dont let it happen twice, so we will see.
|
|
.........but you seem to be under the impression that I am the only guy on here ever to be critical of Dave Tippet............and no doubt you will be able to show me my postings where I stated it was all the coach's fault when we lost 3 in a row v Toronto........you won't of course, because unless I am
