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Post by mrtea on Dec 11, 2019 12:20:57 GMT -7
A good old fashioned hockey trade might be just the thing to shake up the Oilers. Adam Larsson is a good player that could bring back a decent player and we've shown we can thrive without him. I think there are numerous reasons he is the obvious choice.
1. We were doing very well when Larsson was out injured.
2. We actually started losing when Larsson came back.
3. A trade could spark motivation throughout the team.
4.Larsson has value that could help us bring in a 3rd line center or a utility winger.
5.The Oilers are getting complacent and need a message sent that shows consequences.
6. I don't believe Larsson was ever happy to be an Oiler. I think he goes out and does his job like a good Oiler, but I don't think he loves his job as an Oiler. Larsson is probably constantly reminded he was not enough of a return asset for Hall. I think Larsson is content as an Oiler but could be happier playing in a less hockey crazy market. I wouldn't be surprised to see Larsson become a better defenseman somewhere else. I'm not knocking Larsson, but I am knocking the circumstances that brought him to Edmonton.
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Post by Dr. Telly-Belly on Dec 11, 2019 12:38:27 GMT -7
I don't really care what anyone will think of my thoughts here but I would be pleased if a legit 3C was obtained for Larsson. He's not going to be a part of the long term plans and Mr.Tea makes some good points. There maybe good points not to do it but I would favor it for the 6 reasons.
To crack a joke, I was going to suggest that we send him to NJ for Hall but that would do us no good. We need to have a center who can bring some production more than a rental.
If Larsson's contract can be swapped with a team like Winnipeg for say, Wheeler, it might be just the ticket.
The Jet's are needing defense. Oh well, I just check and he has a NMC. But the idea of getting a 3C for Larsson has merit IMO.
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Post by igibb on Dec 11, 2019 13:18:03 GMT -7
We started losing before Larsson came back. We have been 11-10-4 since game 8 and haven't won more than 2 in a row since. 7-5-3 without him in the lineup and 4-5-1 with him in the line up. Without loser points that 7-8 to 4-6 not a huge difference given the small sample size.
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Post by drtaf on Dec 11, 2019 15:59:41 GMT -7
I don't think the intended point of this thread was to blame Larsson for the recent slide (I certainly don't even though I've pushed the idea of trading him somewhat). But that he's likely the most valuable asset we could potentially trade to get what we need back, which is either a top 6 forward or good 3rd line centre. Although his loss would create a bit of a hole, it's a hole we are better equipped to cover up (as evidenced when he wasn't in the line up). I think T makes some good points and #6 is one I haven't really thought about but may be true. I've personally felt that his game dropped off considerably after his father's passing, which is totally understandable and a trade to a "quieter" hockey city might be in his best interests as well as ours?
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Post by blackhawk216 on Dec 11, 2019 16:23:46 GMT -7
We started losing before Larsson came back. We have been 11-10-4 since game 8 and haven't won more than 2 in a row since. 7-5-3 without him in the lineup and 4-5-1 with him in the line up. Without loser points that 7-8 to 4-6 not a huge difference given the small sample size. I am sure you are correct, but Larsson is -7 in only seven games played, and my eyeball test says to me that other than Kassian he takes more unnecessary penalties than any other Oiler. if I am being unfair, I apologise, but that is what I see. In the bigger picture, we did survive OK without Larsson, we could do it again, and if we are going to bring in a player of value, then we most likely will have to ship out a player of value...…...and for several (if not all teams) Larsson's contract would be an incentive to take him. We will even throw in Manning for free, now we can't say fairer than that can we? 
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Post by Dr. Telly-Belly on Dec 11, 2019 16:39:41 GMT -7
If it's true that GM's don't sleep, Holland is looking at everything but as has been said many times, he does not jump quickly. We might not see anything significant until the end of the season.
We may have to hope the players listen to Tip and play 5 man.
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Post by Bronco73 on Dec 11, 2019 17:55:29 GMT -7
I don't really care what anyone will think of my thoughts here but I would be pleased if a legit 3C was obtained for Larsson. He's not going to be a part of the long term plans and Mr.Tea makes some good points. There maybe good points not to do it but I would favor it for the 6 reasons. To crack a joke, I was going to suggest that we send him to NJ for Hall but that would do us no good. We need to have a center who can bring some production more than a rental. If Larsson's contract can be swapped with a team like Winnipeg for say, Wheeler, it might be just the ticket. The Jet's are needing defense. Oh well, I just check and he has a NMC. But the idea of getting a 3C for Larsson has merit IMO. I disagree. We have our third center, in fact we have TONS of centers. McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Sheehan, Haas, Granlund, Gagner are all officially centers. It's our lack of depth and strength at wing that forces our second center to play as a winger on the first line.
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Post by oilyfan on Dec 11, 2019 18:54:18 GMT -7
Well, the way I see it we need a lot. Bronco - Sheahan is a 4th line center. I like Drai and McD together with Kassian. We need a complimentary winger for RNH / Neal, and a legitimate 3rd line center (LMAO Telly, Wheeler?? he's a winger and he's a top line forward - no way no how the Jets trade him for Larsson, that wouldn't even start a conversation NMC or not + he making 8.25 million a season for next four after this).
But I think all are right, we need a winger or two still, and we need a legit 3rd line center. I'm thinking a guy like Kadri (not him specifically), someone who has a mean streak, can score 20 goals, and is a solid Pker, face off winner, and could even play in OT (3 on 3).
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Post by Dr. Telly-Belly on Dec 11, 2019 19:36:26 GMT -7
I don't really care what anyone will think of my thoughts here but I would be pleased if a legit 3C was obtained for Larsson. He's not going to be a part of the long term plans and Mr.Tea makes some good points. There maybe good points not to do it but I would favor it for the 6 reasons. To crack a joke, I was going to suggest that we send him to NJ for Hall but that would do us no good. We need to have a center who can bring some production more than a rental. If Larsson's contract can be swapped with a team like Winnipeg for say, Wheeler, it might be just the ticket. The Jet's are needing defense. Oh well, I just check and he has a NMC. But the idea of getting a 3C for Larsson has merit IMO. I disagree. We have our third center, in fact we have TONS of centers. McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Sheehan, Haas, Granlund, Gagner are all officially centers. It's our lack of depth and strength at wing that forces our second center to play as a winger on the first line. How's that working?
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Post by blackhawk216 on Dec 11, 2019 19:41:22 GMT -7
We started losing before Larsson came back. We have been 11-10-4 since game 8 and haven't won more than 2 in a row since. 7-5-3 without him in the lineup and 4-5-1 with him in the line up. Without loser points that 7-8 to 4-6 not a huge difference given the small sample size. I am sure you are correct, but Larsson is -7 in only seven games played, and my eyeball test says to me that other than Kassian he takes more unnecessary penalties than any other Oiler. if I am being unfair, I apologise, but that is what I see. In the bigger picture, we did survive OK without Larsson, we could do it again, and if we are going to bring in a player of value, then we most likely will have to ship out a player of value...…...and for several (if not all teams) Larsson's contract would be an incentive to take him. We will even throw in Manning for free, now we can't say fairer than that can we? My error here, Larsson is -7 in eleven games played (not seven). Regardless of what we need in terms of forwards, scoring wingers, 3rd line centre etc...……….what we really need is the ability to DEFEND, and regardless of who we send out or bring in, the first priority should be towards improving our ability to keep the puck out of our net. It is probably easier and certainly cheaper to bring in people who can defend, than to bring in recognised scorers, and as I stated on the it was good whilst it lasted thread, our big problem is not scoring goals, it is to avoid conceding them.
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Post by drtaf on Dec 11, 2019 19:43:57 GMT -7
Yeah I thought i'd missed something when TV brought up Wheeler? Like maybe he had a fight with the coach or was suddenly not the heart and sole of the Jets! it would take Drai to pry him out of the Peg IMO. As for what we need a Legit 3rd line center is more valuable to us as I think any of the "Centers" Bronc listed (Sheehan, Haas, Granlund, Gagner) could easily play wing, not many of them however can play legit 3rd line center IMO.
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Post by Bronco73 on Dec 11, 2019 20:25:51 GMT -7
Well, the way I see it we need a lot. Bronco - Sheahan is a 4th line center. I like Drai and McD together with Kassian. We need a complimentary winger for RNH / Neal, and a legitimate 3rd line center (LMAO Telly, Wheeler?? he's a winger and he's a top line forward - no way no how the Jets trade him for Larsson, that wouldn't even start a conversation NMC or not + he making 8.25 million a season for next four after this). But I think all are right, we need a winger or two still, and we need a legit 3rd line center. I'm thinking a guy like Kadri (not him specifically), someone who has a mean streak, can score 20 goals, and is a solid Pker, face off winner, and could even play in OT (3 on 3). RNH is not a legit third line center in your opinion? Our first center SHOULD be McDavid. second SHOULD be Draisaitl. RNH third and then we need a fourth... pick from Granlun Sheahan Haas and Gagner. I think it's the lack of winger talent that forces us to use our centers on the wing.
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Post by Bronco73 on Dec 11, 2019 20:27:58 GMT -7
I disagree. We have our third center, in fact we have TONS of centers. McDavid, Draisaitl, RNH, Sheehan, Haas, Granlund, Gagner are all officially centers. It's our lack of depth and strength at wing that forces our second center to play as a winger on the first line. How's that working? Terrible because we are always using two of our top 3 centers on the first line, since we have nobody else with enough talent to be Connors wingman.
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Post by drtaf on Dec 12, 2019 0:11:55 GMT -7
I'll probably get tons of flak for this but IMO neither McD or Drai have proven to be a 1st line center that carries a line without the other? They obviously have a synergy that makes them both play better when they are together and they struggle a fair bit when they are apart. That's why every coach whose had them ends up putting them on the same line cos they're a deadly threat when together but seem to lack something when separate? Yeah yeah, i know neither has had a true, elite winger to play with (except a short time Drai had hall but we know how that story ended). But you look at Crosby and he can get points with plugs, he just finds a way, same can be said of Malkin (they're the obvious comparison imo). Neither McD or Drai can claim to be defensively reliable or close to Bergeron standards, so I question just how good either one of them is at playing the true centre position? As a duo, they cover the centre position well but individually?, they have room for improvement at this position or they need wingers who make up for their shortcomings which are mostly on the defensive side of things, but defensive minded wingers who can score 30+ goals don't grow on trees and dont come cheap?
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Post by Dr. Telly-Belly on Dec 12, 2019 5:22:04 GMT -7
I'll probably get tons of flak for this but IMO neither McD or Drai have proven to be a 1st line center that carries a line without the other? They obviously have a synergy that makes them both play better when they are together and they struggle a fair bit when they are apart. That's why every coach whose had them ends up putting them on the same line cos they're a deadly threat when together but seem to lack something when separate? Yeah yeah, i know neither has had a true, elite winger to play with (except a short time Drai had hall but we know how that story ended). But you look at Crosby and he can get points with plugs, he just finds a way, same can be said of Malkin (they're the obvious comparison imo). Neither McD or Drai can claim to be defensively reliable or close to Bergeron standards, so I question just how good either one of them is at playing the true centre position? As a duo, they cover the centre position well but individually?, they have room for improvement at this position or they need wingers who make up for their shortcomings which are mostly on the defensive side of things, but defensive minded wingers who can score 30+ goals don't grow on trees and dont come cheap? One little objection. McD has always been an exceptionally defensive reliable center. We've all watched him play a complete game. The problem is his need to score out weighs his defensive game. Sure he has not always played the defensive game but that is not McD. He is a complete player but sadly has defaulted to a offensive game only. Last game in particualr showed his hustle to come back when his wingers were sitting in the O zone waiting for a pass. Incidentally, RNH has also been responsible defensively but I can't truthfully say the same about Leon. LD looks like either he's injured or he has "cherry picking" in mind. All that being said, Holland has a lot of work still to do with all positions. Larsson? Yup. I would try and move him. For what?
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Post by sharptooth on Dec 12, 2019 8:35:17 GMT -7
I'll probably get tons of flak for this but IMO neither McD or Drai have proven to be a 1st line center that carries a line without the other? They obviously have a synergy that makes them both play better when they are together and they struggle a fair bit when they are apart. That's why every coach whose had them ends up putting them on the same line cos they're a deadly threat when together but seem to lack something when separate? Yeah yeah, i know neither has had a true, elite winger to play with (except a short time Drai had hall but we know how that story ended). But you look at Crosby and he can get points with plugs, he just finds a way, same can be said of Malkin (they're the obvious comparison imo). Neither McD or Drai can claim to be defensively reliable or close to Bergeron standards, so I question just how good either one of them is at playing the true centre position? As a duo, they cover the centre position well but individually?, they have room for improvement at this position or they need wingers who make up for their shortcomings which are mostly on the defensive side of things, but defensive minded wingers who can score 30+ goals don't grow on trees and dont come cheap? One little objection. McD has always been an exceptionally defensive reliable center. We've all watched him play a complete game. The problem is his need to score out weighs his defensive game. Sure he has not always played the defensive game but that is not McD. He is a complete player but sadly has defaulted to a offensive game only. Last game in particualr showed his hustle to come back when his wingers were sitting in the O zone waiting for a pass. Incidentally, RNH has also been responsible defensively but I can't truthfully say the same about Leon. LD looks like either he's injured or he has "cherry picking" in mind. All that being said, Holland has a lot of work still to do with all positions. Larsson? Yup. I would try and move him. For what? LD and Mcdavid are now men and it is very disappointing to me that imo they are probably our worst defensive players. I know they need to score but to watch grown men not hustle their asses to get back and help out or zone out and watch the puck is really sad. Mcdavid has the speed to get back easily every time but chooses to glide more often then not. Until these two decide that they are gonna play defence we will never be contenders. They need to shorten their shifts and actually play hockey in both ends of the rink. As for AL, trading him is all fine and good but the way he has played last year and so far this year will not bring us much of a return to be honest. |
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Devilman
Oilers Roster
I am too hot to handle
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Post by Devilman on Dec 12, 2019 9:12:54 GMT -7
The Oilers need Larsson.he has just come off surgery so he is a bit rusty
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Post by Dr. Telly-Belly on Dec 12, 2019 10:26:06 GMT -7
One little objection. McD has always been an exceptionally defensive reliable center. We've all watched him play a complete game. The problem is his need to score out weighs his defensive game. Sure he has not always played the defensive game but that is not McD. He is a complete player but sadly has defaulted to a offensive game only. Last game in particualr showed his hustle to come back when his wingers were sitting in the O zone waiting for a pass. Incidentally, RNH has also been responsible defensively but I can't truthfully say the same about Leon. LD looks like either he's injured or he has "cherry picking" in mind. All that being said, Holland has a lot of work still to do with all positions. Larsson? Yup. I would try and move him. For what? LD and Mcdavid are now men and it is very disappointing to me that imo they are probably our worst defensive players. I know they need to score but to watch grown men not hustle their asses to get back and help out or zone out and watch the puck is really sad. Mcdavid has the speed to get back easily every time but chooses to glide more often then not. Until these two decide that they are gonna play defence we will never be contenders. They need to shorten their shifts and actually play hockey in both ends of the rink. As for AL, trading him is all fine and good but the way he has played last year and so far this year will not bring us much of a return to be honest. I agree to a degree. Both can and should play an entire game but McD has shown hustle and on a regular basis. Complaint against him is not really worth pursuing. It's LD that should feel a little fury. He not only is a defensive liability in the defense zone, he is weak in the neutral zone. Sad fact is that both could dominate the entire ice but choose to read their own press clippings.
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Post by rickster on Dec 12, 2019 12:18:29 GMT -7
One little objection. McD has always been an exceptionally defensive reliable center. We've all watched him play a complete game. The problem is his need to score out weighs his defensive game. Sure he has not always played the defensive game but that is not McD. He is a complete player but sadly has defaulted to a offensive game only. Last game in particualr showed his hustle to come back when his wingers were sitting in the O zone waiting for a pass. Incidentally, RNH has also been responsible defensively but I can't truthfully say the same about Leon. LD looks like either he's injured or he has "cherry picking" in mind. All that being said, Holland has a lot of work still to do with all positions. Larsson? Yup. I would try and move him. For what? LD and Mcdavid are now men and it is very disappointing to me that imo they are probably our worst defensive players. I know they need to score but to watch grown men not hustle their asses to get back and help out or zone out and watch the puck is really sad. Mcdavid has the speed to get back easily every time but chooses to glide more often then not. Until these two decide that they are gonna play defence we will never be contenders. They need to shorten their shifts and actually play hockey in both ends of the rink. As for AL, trading him is all fine and good but the way he has played last year and so far this year will not bring us much of a return to be honest. After 10 years of solid 2-way hockey, Bergeron still can't crack 7 mill/yr and has never had a 100 point season. Tough to blame our fellers for doing what it takes to lead the league in scoring (and score those sweet sweet contracts). Show me the money!
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Post by sharptooth on Dec 12, 2019 13:09:29 GMT -7
LD and Mcdavid are now men and it is very disappointing to me that imo they are probably our worst defensive players. I know they need to score but to watch grown men not hustle their asses to get back and help out or zone out and watch the puck is really sad. Mcdavid has the speed to get back easily every time but chooses to glide more often then not. Until these two decide that they are gonna play defence we will never be contenders. They need to shorten their shifts and actually play hockey in both ends of the rink. As for AL, trading him is all fine and good but the way he has played last year and so far this year will not bring us much of a return to be honest. After 10 years of solid 2-way hockey, Bergeron still can't crack 7 mill/yr and has never had a 100 point season. Tough to blame our fellers for doing what it takes to lead the league in scoring (and score those sweet sweet contracts). Show me the money! The problem is that they get scored on as much as they score. |
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