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Post by neufab94 on Jul 15, 2021 13:33:11 GMT -7
Bringing in Green for Brodziak is what it is... meh... no great gain or loss.
Andreas Athanasiou: Traded to Edmonton by Detroit with Ryan Kuffner for Sam Gagner, Edmonton's 2nd-round pick in 2020 NHL Draft and 2nd-round pick in 2021 NHL Draft, February 24, 2020.
Acquiring AA for Gagner and 2 second round picks is an example of poor asset management and is certainly a loss of assets. Gambled and lost. Kuffner does not appear as an active Oiler contract. Under this logic, we could trade Neal and 2 second round picks for nothing, just to get rid of a contract. Who here thinks that would be a good idea? ...I for one do not.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jul 15, 2021 13:34:54 GMT -7
Bringing in Green for Brodziak is what it is... meh... no great gain or loss. Andreas Athanasiou: Traded to Edmonton by Detroit with Ryan Kuffner for Sam Gagner, Edmonton's 2nd-round pick in 2020 NHL Draft and 2nd-round pick in 2021 NHL Draft, February 24, 2020. Acquiring AA for Gagner and 2 second round picks is an example of poor asset management and is certainly a loss of assets. Gambled and lost. Kuffner does not appear as an active Oiler contract. Under this logic, we could trade Neal and 2 second round picks for nothing, just to get rid of a contract. Who here thinks that would be a good idea? ...I for one do not. AA’s “gamble” was lost because we gave up too easily. If he was given another year, he would have done fine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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Post by drtaf on Jul 15, 2021 13:58:20 GMT -7
I think that’s a fair comment but I believe the sticking point was that kh would be forced to qualify him at $3m+? And funny enough I “praised kh” for having the balls to admit he made a mistake and moved on instead of doubling down on his mistake like PC always seem to do. It’s pure conjecture on everyone’s part inc mine on how AA would have faired if kh qualified him, some players just don’t fit into a team and need a change of scenery or different system to excel. I’m happy AA found a home in LA. I’ve no idea what LA is paying him but I think it was quite a bit less than what we would have had to. Ie worth the gamble. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong 😉. I honestly don’t know and I’m not interested enough to look. IMO, KH has done some good deals and done some bad ones , he hasn’t come close to reaching PC status yet and there’s plenty of time for him to hit some home runs before the season starts and I hope he does and I also hope we can all openly debate how his next moves rank as I’m sure there will be lots of them between now and start of season and I for one really do hope he hits it out of the park
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Post by neufab94 on Jul 15, 2021 13:59:49 GMT -7
Bringing in Green for Brodziak is what it is... meh... no great gain or loss. Andreas Athanasiou: Traded to Edmonton by Detroit with Ryan Kuffner for Sam Gagner, Edmonton's 2nd-round pick in 2020 NHL Draft and 2nd-round pick in 2021 NHL Draft, February 24, 2020. Acquiring AA for Gagner and 2 second round picks is an example of poor asset management and is certainly a loss of assets. Gambled and lost. Kuffner does not appear as an active Oiler contract. Under this logic, we could trade Neal and 2 second round picks for nothing, just to get rid of a contract. Who here thinks that would be a good idea? ...I for one do not. AA’s “gamble” was lost because we gave up too easily. If he was given another year, he would have done fine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Agreed, and therefore, poor asset management resulting in a loss of assets - quite literally.
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Post by neufab94 on Jul 15, 2021 14:08:50 GMT -7
I think that’s a fair comment but I believe the sticking point was that kh would be forced to qualify him at $3m+? And funny enough I “praised kh” for having the balls to admit he made a mistake and moved on instead of doubling down on his mistake like PC always seem to do. It’s pure conjecture on everyone’s part inc mine on how AA would have faired if kh qualified him, some players just don’t fit into a team and need a change of scenery or different system to excel. I’m happy AA found a home in LA. I’ve no idea what LA is paying him but I think it was quite a bit less than what we would have had to. Ie worth the gamble. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong 😉. I honestly don’t know and I’m not interested enough to look. IMO, KH has done some good deals and done some bad ones , he hasn’t come close to reaching PC status yet and there’s plenty of time for him to hit some home runs before the season starts and I hope he does and I also hope we can all openly debate how his next moves rank as I’m sure there will be lots of them between now and start of season and I for one really do hope he hits it out of the park For the record AA was paid 1.2mil. I know Holland is not done yet, and I hope that he hits it out of the park also. It would be a bonus if he could acquire a pick or 2 along the way to make up for the ones lost in the AA deal.
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Post by drtaf on Jul 15, 2021 14:35:00 GMT -7
Thanks for confirming that neuf at 1.2 I’m sure kh would have given him a 2nd season but I think he made the right call on not qualifying him at 3+. Too big a risk IMO
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Post by pillotte on Jul 15, 2021 15:32:59 GMT -7
Why is it whenever KH or Tibbett do something you are always critical of almost EVERYTHING. My only suggestion to you would be to go somewhere else, otherwise get on board. I'm not the only one that's tired of your constant whining and complaining of everything. You're obviously not a true Oiler fan. I've been an oiler fan for 38 yrs and I'm not critical of everything KH or Tippett do. However when they make a mistake I feel free to criticise/comment on it as can anyone else on this board. I also open myself up to criticism such as yours and I'm fine with that also. Ironically, both KH and tippett's tenure started off strong and i was full of praise for both, but as they've continued, especially KH, i have seen more bad than good. I didnt expect Kh to perform miracles when he came in but I thought looch for neal was genius and still do. AA and green were big swings and misses (can anyone seriously argue that)?, the rest has mostly been thumb-twiddling until now, because he had no cap to do anything. now that he has, i think his first move was an overpayment (as does the majority of the hockey world), others disagree and a debate has followed. It's probably gotten more ink than it should because we're all craving hockey news of some kind and this was relatively speaking big news for oiler fans. As for "Get on Board", that literally means "Drink the koolaid" and I'll never succumb to that way of thinking, its not in my DNA! I'll continue to post my opinions here and they are just that, "opinions", both positive and negative. but the Day Bronc or any of the moderators state that only positive, warm, fuzzy thoughts are allowed here, then that will be the day I'll leave this board. Ironically i used to follow the old "official fan board but never signed up because criticism of oiler management wasnt allowed. This Board however allows criticism and is a fantastic place to find and see oiler news and opinions both good and bad. Personally, I prefer to hear both the pros and cons of any story so I can come up with my own conclusion and quite frankly I am absolutely sick to Death of the current state of the world's contrarian personality of it's "My way, or the Highway" with the "MY Way" being dictated by whoever controls the media. thankfully, as mediums go, this message board is as about free as it gets and if you dont like that then I suggest you may need to find a board a little less radical and more inline with the company line. I suggest go read Mark Spector's article on sportsnet site! First of all I'm all Oilers from the first WHA days, so we are both long term Oiler fans. That's a good thing. Now for the other stuff. How do you know the Keith trade is bad. How can you judge before the season has even started? Now if we're into 15 - 20 games and he's not come up to expectations I'll be the first to acknowledge, but I don't believe that's going to happen. If you believe everything Spector writes WOW!!!!!!!!! He doesn't have a crystal ball nor do any other so called writers have. Evidently there were 6-7 other teams interested in Keith we weren't the only ones. Yes he could have gone Seattle or Vancouver, but he chose the Oilers as he felt they were closer to a Cup plus MCD and Drai. Now let's agree at this point to disagree on most of your negativity for now. I'll guess we'll just have to wait huh?
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Post by blackhawk216 on Jul 15, 2021 15:34:04 GMT -7
Bringing in Green for Brodziak is what it is... meh... no great gain or loss. Andreas Athanasiou: Traded to Edmonton by Detroit with Ryan Kuffner for Sam Gagner, Edmonton's 2nd-round pick in 2020 NHL Draft and 2nd-round pick in 2021 NHL Draft, February 24, 2020. Acquiring AA for Gagner and 2 second round picks is an example of poor asset management and is certainly a loss of assets. Gambled and lost. Kuffner does not appear as an active Oiler contract. Under this logic, we could trade Neal and 2 second round picks for nothing, just to get rid of a contract. Who here thinks that would be a good idea? ...I for one do not. AA’s “gamble” was lost because we gave up too easily. If he was given another year, he would have done fine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I thought he was offered another year but club and player could not agree on terms?
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Post by FloridaAltFan on Jul 15, 2021 16:05:34 GMT -7
I just hope KH has exclusive GM ability. This smells like the old Oiler input from committee GM decisions. KH has worked with older talented players in the past in Detroit, perhaps that has stuck with him.
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Post by sharptooth on Jul 15, 2021 16:10:01 GMT -7
I myself wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Keith is our best d man this upcoming season.
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Post by yuke on Jul 15, 2021 16:20:42 GMT -7
AA’s “gamble” was lost because we gave up too easily. If he was given another year, he would have done fine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I thought he was offered another year but club and player could not agree on terms? He did get an offer from Holland, thought he could get more and he ended up with less |
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Post by oilyfan on Jul 15, 2021 16:36:13 GMT -7
I've been an oiler fan for 38 yrs and I'm not critical of everything KH or Tippett do. However when they make a mistake I feel free to criticise/comment on it as can anyone else on this board. I also open myself up to criticism such as yours and I'm fine with that also. Ironically, both KH and tippett's tenure started off strong and i was full of praise for both, but as they've continued, especially KH, i have seen more bad than good. I didnt expect Kh to perform miracles when he came in but I thought looch for neal was genius and still do. AA and green were big swings and misses (can anyone seriously argue that)?, the rest has mostly been thumb-twiddling until now, because he had no cap to do anything. now that he has, i think his first move was an overpayment (as does the majority of the hockey world), others disagree and a debate has followed. It's probably gotten more ink than it should because we're all craving hockey news of some kind and this was relatively speaking big news for oiler fans. As for "Get on Board", that literally means "Drink the koolaid" and I'll never succumb to that way of thinking, its not in my DNA! I'll continue to post my opinions here and they are just that, "opinions", both positive and negative. but the Day Bronc or any of the moderators state that only positive, warm, fuzzy thoughts are allowed here, then that will be the day I'll leave this board. Ironically i used to follow the old "official fan board but never signed up because criticism of oiler management wasnt allowed. This Board however allows criticism and is a fantastic place to find and see oiler news and opinions both good and bad. Personally, I prefer to hear both the pros and cons of any story so I can come up with my own conclusion and quite frankly I am absolutely sick to Death of the current state of the world's contrarian personality of it's "My way, or the Highway" with the "MY Way" being dictated by whoever controls the media. thankfully, as mediums go, this message board is as about free as it gets and if you dont like that then I suggest you may need to find a board a little less radical and more inline with the company line. I suggest go read Mark Spector's article on sportsnet site! I will argue the AA and Green signing. Who knew Green would get hurt and who knew Covid would cause such a mess. Holland was not the only one stung. Best games played by AA were his last 2, which arguably was when he started to feel comfortable with his role and the team was getting used to his play. The guy had 23 points in 47 games with the Kings this season. Which would put him just behind JP with less games and no CM to play with. Not great but not bad. AA did nothing in the play in round and we had to qualify him at around 3.5M IIRC to keep him. Sure, he did great in LA - at 1.2M and if we could of kept him at 1.2m I'm sure we would have. He didn't like it here. I think he didn't like the pressure. There was/is no pressure in LA right now. They are a rebuilding team with no superstar for him to play for (Kopitar is a star but he's no McDavid or Draisaitl). I wish that trade was a 2nd + a conditional 2nd though. Two seconds for him was too much considering what he was going to cost to keep. Green - you're right, no one could of predicted his injury for sure. But then he promptly retired. You would of thought KH would of had an inkling he would have done that? AFAIK Holland got duped on those trades. He should have negotiated better. For this (Keith) trade - same thing. A lot of the folks who support KH 100% are forgetting that the Oilers and Keith held all the cards here. Vcr was not interested, nor was Calgary. Seattle was the only other possible landing spot and I don't believe they were interested in him either - at least not until after the two drafts (expansion and amateur) so they could judge where they were at. I think KH should have been in a position to just walk away. I would almost bet my house that if he had, Stan would have called him the next day and either dropped the draft pick, added a draft pick to take on Keith's full salary, or would have eaten 20% or so of his salary (in which case we still give up the pick). But for some reason, KH didn't want that, or................. Katz didn't. As I had mentioned earlier, this is a reverse Lucic deal. Yes, DK is a 5.5M cap hit, but in real money that Mr. Katz is paying, it's 2.1M this year, 1.5M in his last year. That means, over two years, Mr. Katz is saving $7,476,924. That's serious coin and I don't blame Katz one bit seeing how we had to pay Lucic the lions share of his contract PLUS take on the full contract of Neal. That comes close (but not quite I don't think) to balance that out. So in conclusion here - bottom line is there was salary cap room there to be retained, but KH was instructed NOT to get it. Any salary retention would cost Katz (as that 'saving' would then be spent elsewhere). Could be two years for him and the rest of the owners to recoup the losses Covid brought. This was a much more complicated trade then how it looks on the surface.
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Post by fogolin2 on Jul 15, 2021 16:52:49 GMT -7
I thought he was offered another year but club and player could not agree on terms? He did get an offer from Holland, thought he could get more and he ended up with less It's like he took less money to live where he wanted. Or something.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jul 15, 2021 17:15:39 GMT -7
I thought he was offered another year but club and player could not agree on terms? He did get an offer from Holland, thought he could get more and he ended up with less Yeah. Holland offered less than his qualifying offer, AA refused then signed for 1.2M in LA. The rumour was Holland offered somewhere between 1 and 1.5M. In hindsight, I would have rather given AA 2.2M for 1 year than Turris for 1.65M for 2 years. |
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Post by yuke on Jul 15, 2021 17:44:18 GMT -7
He did get an offer from Holland, thought he could get more and he ended up with less Yeah. Holland offered less than his qualifying offer, AA refused then signed for 1.2M in LA. The rumour was Holland offered somewhere between 1 and 1.5M. In hindsight, I would have rather given AA 2.2M for 1 year than Turris for 1.65M for 2 years. I read or heard somewhere AA has arbitration rights this year and the Kings may walk away. |
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Post by yuke on Jul 15, 2021 17:51:23 GMT -7
I will argue the AA and Green signing. Who knew Green would get hurt and who knew Covid would cause such a mess. Holland was not the only one stung. Best games played by AA were his last 2, which arguably was when he started to feel comfortable with his role and the team was getting used to his play. The guy had 23 points in 47 games with the Kings this season. Which would put him just behind JP with less games and no CM to play with. Not great but not bad. AA did nothing in the play in round and we had to qualify him at around 3.5M IIRC to keep him. Sure, he did great in LA - at 1.2M and if we could of kept him at 1.2m I'm sure we would have. He didn't like it here. I think he didn't like the pressure. There was/is no pressure in LA right now. They are a rebuilding team with no superstar for him to play for (Kopitar is a star but he's no McDavid or Draisaitl). I wish that trade was a 2nd + a conditional 2nd though. Two seconds for him was too much considering what he was going to cost to keep. Green - you're right, no one could of predicted his injury for sure. But then he promptly retired. You would of thought KH would of had an inkling he would have done that? AFAIK Holland got duped on those trades. He should have negotiated better. For this (Keith) trade - same thing. A lot of the folks who support KH 100% are forgetting that the Oilers and Keith held all the cards here. Vcr was not interested, nor was Calgary. Seattle was the only other possible landing spot and I don't believe they were interested in him either - at least not until after the two drafts (expansion and amateur) so they could judge where they were at. I think KH should have been in a position to just walk away. I would almost bet my house that if he had, Stan would have called him the next day and either dropped the draft pick, added a draft pick to take on Keith's full salary, or would have eaten 20% or so of his salary (in which case we still give up the pick). But for some reason, KH didn't want that, or................. Katz didn't. As I had mentioned earlier, this is a reverse Lucic deal. Yes, DK is a 5.5M cap hit, but in real money that Mr. Katz is paying, it's 2.1M this year, 1.5M in his last year. That means, over two years, Mr. Katz is saving $7,476,924. That's serious coin and I don't blame Katz one bit seeing how we had to pay Lucic the lions share of his contract PLUS take on the full contract of Neal. That comes close (but not quite I don't think) to balance that out. So in conclusion here - bottom line is there was salary cap room there to be retained, but KH was instructed NOT to get it. Any salary retention would cost Katz (as that 'saving' would then be spent elsewhere). Could be two years for him and the rest of the owners to recoup the losses Covid brought. This was a much more complicated trade then how it looks on the surface. Pretty sure Seattle was Keith's backup plan, to lazy to look around for it but it was mentioned by a couple of talk hosts. Glad to have him on board. |
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Post by AlwaysOil on Jul 15, 2021 19:09:54 GMT -7
I myself wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Keith is our best d man this upcoming season. I’m interested to see how the pairings will work out. Keith is an aggressive defender and has a good stick. I’m thinking that works well with Larsson. Bear with Keith may be similar to Keith the last few years in Chicago and not good. Possible that Keith/Larsson is better than Nurse/Bear, but I’m still thinking Nurse will be our best defenceman.
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brolo
Bakersfield Roster
Pissy Oilers Fan
Posts: 134
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Post by brolo on Jul 15, 2021 21:44:59 GMT -7
I’ve had so much dung thrown in my face by the Oilers brain trust the past 15+ years it’s impossible to see at all any more. This trade itself is bad which is my opinion, especially given everything that’s happened around the league in the following 48 hours including Graves tonight, but I am hoping Keith proves everyone wrong. I love a guy with the pedigree he has and his work ethic night in and night out and I hope the rest of the team buys in and follows suit. It’s what I loved so much about Hendricks, I just wish we had Hendy on the team we have now.
There will be more moves to come, hopefully no more Reinhart or AA type deals.
Please.
…
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Post by Bronco73 on Jul 15, 2021 21:53:38 GMT -7
AA did nothing in the play in round and we had to qualify him at around 3.5M IIRC to keep him. Sure, he did great in LA - at 1.2M and if we could of kept him at 1.2m I'm sure we would have. He didn't like it here. I think he didn't like the pressure. There was/is no pressure in LA right now. They are a rebuilding team with no superstar for him to play for (Kopitar is a star but he's no McDavid or Draisaitl). I wish that trade was a 2nd + a conditional 2nd though. Two seconds for him was too much considering what he was going to cost to keep. Green - you're right, no one could of predicted his injury for sure. But then he promptly retired. You would of thought KH would of had an inkling he would have done that? AFAIK Holland got duped on those trades. He should have negotiated better. For this (Keith) trade - same thing. A lot of the folks who support KH 100% are forgetting that the Oilers and Keith held all the cards here. Vcr was not interested, nor was Calgary. Seattle was the only other possible landing spot and I don't believe they were interested in him either - at least not until after the two drafts (expansion and amateur) so they could judge where they were at. I think KH should have been in a position to just walk away. I would almost bet my house that if he had, Stan would have called him the next day and either dropped the draft pick, added a draft pick to take on Keith's full salary, or would have eaten 20% or so of his salary (in which case we still give up the pick). But for some reason, KH didn't want that, or................. Katz didn't. As I had mentioned earlier, this is a reverse Lucic deal. Yes, DK is a 5.5M cap hit, but in real money that Mr. Katz is paying, it's 2.1M this year, 1.5M in his last year. That means, over two years, Mr. Katz is saving $7,476,924. That's serious coin and I don't blame Katz one bit seeing how we had to pay Lucic the lions share of his contract PLUS take on the full contract of Neal. That comes close (but not quite I don't think) to balance that out. So in conclusion here - bottom line is there was salary cap room there to be retained, but KH was instructed NOT to get it. Any salary retention would cost Katz (as that 'saving' would then be spent elsewhere). Could be two years for him and the rest of the owners to recoup the losses Covid brought. This was a much more complicated trade then how it looks on the surface. Pretty sure Seattle was Keith's backup plan, to lazy to look around for it but it was mentioned by a couple of talk hosts. Glad to have him on board. It wasn't necessarily his "backup" plan. He wanted to be closer to his son. Covid kept him away from him and Keith became homesick. The two teams he wanted were Edmonton and Seattle with Edmonton being his first choice. (Can't blame him for not wanting Calgary or Vancouver now can we lol) Isn't his son in like Penticton or something?
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Post by fogolin2 on Jul 16, 2021 7:35:54 GMT -7
I myself wouldn’t be a bit surprised if Keith is our best d man this upcoming season. I’m interested to see how the pairings will work out. Keith is an aggressive defender and has a good stick. I’m thinking that works well with Larsson. Bear with Keith may be similar to Keith the last few years in Chicago and not good. Possible that Keith/Larsson is better than Nurse/Bear, but I’m still thinking Nurse will be our best defenceman. I'm not sure how their playing styles mesh, but maybe he plays sheltered minutes with Bouchard?
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