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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 14, 2024 8:18:43 GMT -7
I feel the pain Windsor but as most have said, not much we can do? Some tidbits i picked up on SM over last 18hrs or so? 1. the same Seravelli who first broke this news has also said that the talks with drai are going well and the number being talked will surprise oiler fans in a good way?? I'm hoping it means it starts with a 12? Now the bad news; Stauffer and a few others have been saying that upper management had tasked KH with signing Bro and hollywood as the top priority in january which suggests to me that he was the primary ball dropper on this one, although safe to say that JJ et al still had some time, but never got around to picking it up either? There's also no proof that either would have signed in January-feb given that both were still largely in the doghouse at that time and may not have felt there was much of a future here anyway, so none of us really know just "how much" effort/priority KH did put into signing them? IMO, it wont have been much. Anyhow, if SB thought this was a cushy job to land, taking over a SC contender and just tweaking them to a SCF win, his summer just become a whole lot harder and if he manages to navigate it, he'll start to earn those redemption points, at least for oiler fans! I wonder if these offer sheets affect what Drai is asking? I really believe that both him and McDavid don’t give a Mangiapane about money or individual awards with their focus on winning a cup. Within reason. Would Drai shave off 200k off his ask if management shows him a plan to retain Broberg & Holloway that works with him doing that? Does he take a mil off and sign for 1 or 2 years? Lots of retired good players without a cup likely would time machine back in time and take league minimum for a year or two if they hoist the cup. If the number comes in low like suggested, and 97 does the same, AND we win the cup, Katz better start budgeting for a couple more statues and Edmonton better start picking a few streets to be renamed. haha always, just posted as we had the same line of thinking. Maybe Drai wants more now, the opposite of what we think.
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Post by igibb on Aug 14, 2024 8:30:20 GMT -7
Stauffer is trying to be relevant in all this with those comments. Do people honestly think, Broberg at least, who had just asked for a trade at the end of December is then going to turn around and sign a low ball contract with the same team he just asked to be traded from less than a month later. Holloway wasn't in the doghouse he was coming off yet another injury where he had been out of the line up for 2 plus months which again would have been a foolish time for a player to sign a contract. If either players agents let them sign contracts at that point in time they should both have been fired immediately. All true and drtaf all seems to be true, sorry for yesterday igibb. Was not happy. Looks like this is a case where you over ripen players, it comes back to bite sometimes. Offer sheets happen rarely, this is one of those times. Hopefully Drai comes in cheaper but he may look at it the opposite way with guys leaving, less depth so he might want more now. See what happens No worries. This was a massively unique situation that will probably never occur again in the league. The Blues needed 2 guys from one team to have ELC's come due at the same time, needed both those players to accept contracts at two different compensation levels and needed another team to trade them back their own draft pick to even make this possible. They also need to make cap space to even pay these guys what they have signed for which they will have because their star dman is more than likely going to be on LTIR for the whole season. Chances of this perfect storm ever happening again to any team are slim to none. And the bottom line is these guys are not super stars we could be losing. Neither have been able to consistently crack the line up. One hasn't even been able to play a full season anywhere since being drafted due to injuries. Good players? Sure and could be very good players but it's not like either are irreplaceable at this point if we don't match.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 14, 2024 9:19:35 GMT -7
All true and drtaf all seems to be true, sorry for yesterday igibb. Was not happy. Looks like this is a case where you over ripen players, it comes back to bite sometimes. Offer sheets happen rarely, this is one of those times. Hopefully Drai comes in cheaper but he may look at it the opposite way with guys leaving, less depth so he might want more now. See what happens No worries. This was a massively unique situation that will probably never occur again in the league. The Blues needed 2 guys from one team to have ELC's come due at the same time, needed both those players to accept contracts at two different compensation levels and needed another team to trade them back their own draft pick to even make this possible. They also need to make cap space to even pay these guys what they have signed for which they will have because their star dman is more than likely going to be on LTIR for the whole season. Chances of this perfect storm ever happening again to any team are slim to none. And the bottom line is these guys are not super stars we could be losing. Neither have been able to consistently crack the line up. One hasn't even been able to play a full season anywhere since being drafted due to injuries. Good players? Sure and could be very good players but it's not like either are irreplaceable at this point if we don't match. To be clear, i did say that no one really knows what was said or proposed if anything in January and I've also seen at least 1 POV that both players would have been crazy to sign then as they were both probably at their weakest point in regards to bargaining power and so you're right, their agents should've advised against it (at same time, this might be why upper management were urging to get it done knowing that this was the best time to get both at the right price? I'm definitely in "major speculation" territory here, but if there were discussions and there was pushback from the agents that they did not want to negotiate then maybe the 2 of them should have been traded? Either before TDL (there was speculation) or shortly after season ended? I also think not having a defacto GM during this time may have hampered all processes despite the fact JJ looked like he was doing a very good "fill-in" job? I also think that the over-ripening philosophy KH had, contributed to this problem, and when something like this happens, the finger does have to point at management. Everyone knew we were vulnerable to this kind of offer, but no one did anything assuming it would eventually take care of itself? That is mismanagement (who's??) no matter how much lipstick and excuses are assigned to it? The bottom line now is: We either lose 2 1st rounders who are about to be regular NHLers after having "wasted" years developing them, for a 2nd and a 3rd, or we end up paying roughly $4M more in cap space than was anticipated? For a team looking to win cups, having to sign its superstars and being completely cap-strapped, that's a pretty egregious mistake IMO, hence why I completely sympathise with Windsor's frustration at it all?
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Post by igibb on Aug 14, 2024 10:21:19 GMT -7
No worries. This was a massively unique situation that will probably never occur again in the league. The Blues needed 2 guys from one team to have ELC's come due at the same time, needed both those players to accept contracts at two different compensation levels and needed another team to trade them back their own draft pick to even make this possible. They also need to make cap space to even pay these guys what they have signed for which they will have because their star dman is more than likely going to be on LTIR for the whole season. Chances of this perfect storm ever happening again to any team are slim to none. And the bottom line is these guys are not super stars we could be losing. Neither have been able to consistently crack the line up. One hasn't even been able to play a full season anywhere since being drafted due to injuries. Good players? Sure and could be very good players but it's not like either are irreplaceable at this point if we don't match. To be clear, i did say that no one really knows what was said or proposed if anything in January and I've also seen at least 1 POV that both players would have been crazy to sign then as they were both probably at their weakest point in regards to bargaining power and so you're right, their agents should've advised against it (at same time, this might be why upper management were urging to get it done knowing that this was the best time to get both at the right price? I'm definitely in "major speculation" territory here, but if there were discussions and there was pushback from the agents that they did not want to negotiate then maybe the 2 of them should have been traded? Either before TDL (there was speculation) or shortly after season ended? I also think not having a defacto GM during this time may have hampered all processes despite the fact JJ looked like he was doing a very good "fill-in" job? I also think that the over-ripening philosophy KH had, contributed to this problem, and when something like this happens, the finger does have to point at management. Everyone knew we were vulnerable to this kind of offer, but no one did anything assuming it would eventually take care of itself? That is mismanagement (who's??) no matter how much lipstick and excuses are assigned to it? The bottom line now is: We either lose 2 1st rounders who are about to be regular NHLers after having "wasted" years developing them, for a 2nd and a 3rd, or we end up paying roughly $4M more in cap space than was anticipated? For a team looking to win cups, having to sign its superstars and being completely cap-strapped, that's a pretty egregious mistake IMO, hence why I completely sympathise with Windsor's frustration at it all? Do you honestly think we would have got more than a 2nd and a 3rd for two players who had proven nothing up to that point at the trade deadline or in the 6 days between the end of the playoffs and their contracts expiring on June 30th? And if we had gotten that you would have commended Holland for a shrewd move? Not trying to be a smart Fogolin2 honestly wondering. You don't like the over ripening but what do you think we would be having to pay the two of them in bridge deals if they had played and already turned into what we all hope they will be? Or they didn't and they are worth what? A 2nd and 3rd round pick at best? I don't think Broberg in particular has been managed well but I am also not under the delusion that had he been, and he developed into a good young top 4 dman that he would be already signed for under $2M. Again we have no idea what these two were asking for and it was obviously more than what pretty much every Oilers fan would have said were good deals or I bet they would have been signed. You can't force players to sign contracts they don't want to and if we had paid them each $2-3 million even everyone would be losing their minds about how bad management is. Everyone wants management to be hard nosed in negotiating and when it fails they blame management. I think they way overvalue what the return on players like this will get in a real trade as well.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 14, 2024 11:45:33 GMT -7
To be clear, i did say that no one really knows what was said or proposed if anything in January and I've also seen at least 1 POV that both players would have been crazy to sign then as they were both probably at their weakest point in regards to bargaining power and so you're right, their agents should've advised against it (at same time, this might be why upper management were urging to get it done knowing that this was the best time to get both at the right price? I'm definitely in "major speculation" territory here, but if there were discussions and there was pushback from the agents that they did not want to negotiate then maybe the 2 of them should have been traded? Either before TDL (there was speculation) or shortly after season ended? I also think not having a defacto GM during this time may have hampered all processes despite the fact JJ looked like he was doing a very good "fill-in" job? I also think that the over-ripening philosophy KH had, contributed to this problem, and when something like this happens, the finger does have to point at management. Everyone knew we were vulnerable to this kind of offer, but no one did anything assuming it would eventually take care of itself? That is mismanagement (who's??) no matter how much lipstick and excuses are assigned to it? The bottom line now is: We either lose 2 1st rounders who are about to be regular NHLers after having "wasted" years developing them, for a 2nd and a 3rd, or we end up paying roughly $4M more in cap space than was anticipated? For a team looking to win cups, having to sign its superstars and being completely cap-strapped, that's a pretty egregious mistake IMO, hence why I completely sympathise with Windsor's frustration at it all? Do you honestly think we would have got more than a 2nd and a 3rd for two players who had proven nothing up to that point at the trade deadline or in the 6 days between the end of the playoffs and their contracts expiring on June 30th? And if we had gotten that you would have commended Holland for a shrewd move? Not trying to be a smart Fogolin2 honestly wondering. You don't like the over ripening but what do you think we would be having to pay the two of them in bridge deals if they had played and already turned into what we all hope they will be? Or they didn't and they are worth what? A 2nd and 3rd round pick at best? I don't think Broberg in particular has been managed well but I am also not under the delusion that had he been, and he developed into a good young top 4 dman that he would be already signed for under $2M. Again we have no idea what these two were asking for and it was obviously more than what pretty much every Oilers fan would have said were good deals or I bet they would have been signed. You can't force players to sign contracts they don't want to and if we had paid them each $2-3 million even everyone would be losing their minds about how bad management is. Everyone wants management to be hard nosed in negotiating and when it fails they blame management. I think they way overvalue what the return on players like this will get in a real trade as well. As I said, all speculation ;-). Negotiations happen behind closed doors so no one really knows outside the agent and KH himself what was or wasn't said, but one thing i liked about kenny was he was always pretty honest and upfront with explanations after he conducted a trade or major move/signing. So if he had turned around and traded them before TDL, I'm pretty sure he'd have came out with his reasons. If those were that they didnt want to sign and didn't see a future with the oilers (rumoured to be the case with Bro) and so he traded them for a bag of pucks rather risk losing for nothing, then I for one would move on, ( probably not before having a good Huberdeau about over-ripening LOL)! This is the same guy who had no qualms inking JP and Yammo to $3M deals and I for one (and i think a few others) thought those were stupid amounts for those guys, but he felt they were a core part of the team and would improve? he was wrong! likewise, he obviously wasn't prepared to offer bro or Hollywood anything like what yammo got and was banking on being able to sign them at a good cap hit at a later date. Obviously he was wrong about that as well. And to put these offers into those perspectives, I'd much rather he'd have bet on bro and hollywood, rather than Yam or JP (basically same cap hits overall) and that's not hindsight. I never really saw what KH saw in JP or Yam, but i've been high on both Bro and hollywood since their first days of training camp and i find it somewhat ironic that Bro was never afforded the same breaks as Bouch given that bouch was a Chirelli pick and bro was KH's first big draftee (a controversial one at that). it's all coulda woulda shoulda, but I just hate when bosses who get paid millions to get things right and then screw up and folks just shrug and say "oh well" how could he have known? That's his ff'ing job and why he gets paid millions. I dont particularly care about excuses, however valid they may be. bosses, Investors brokers etc gamble all the time on certain things happening and the ones who get it right more often than not get paid massively. those that dont, get turfed pronto. It's kind of ironic PC is wrapped up in all this as many blame him for giving KH such a shitpile to deal with he took over, but the shitpile KH left SB is also rapidly growing? some folks will say he left SB a team that came within 1 game of a cup, but IMO, that would be pretty disengenuous as to the real situation SB is now in which is cap hell, no prospects or picks and massive contracts that need to be negotiated (ironically, that all sounds kinda familiar) 
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 14, 2024 12:17:07 GMT -7
What do you guys think, should we match or not? Too much speed and youth to lose. If we lose them our youngest player is Bouch at 25. It appears that Kane will go on LTIR so this will help but does not solve the problem if he comes back around the new year. Happy at least that this happened before we signed Bouch and Drai. Maybe they will take less now. We cannot afford everybody, our young players wouldn't be cheap anymore.
It's not just the two years we pay these Holly/Broberg, their qualifying offers after the two years will be high. Friedman reported Holly wanted 1.25 x 1 yr so he could have arb rights next year while Broberg wanted 1.8 x 2. Too bad management didn't get it done.
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Post by igibb on Aug 14, 2024 12:23:54 GMT -7
Do you honestly think we would have got more than a 2nd and a 3rd for two players who had proven nothing up to that point at the trade deadline or in the 6 days between the end of the playoffs and their contracts expiring on June 30th? And if we had gotten that you would have commended Holland for a shrewd move? Not trying to be a smart Fogolin2 honestly wondering. You don't like the over ripening but what do you think we would be having to pay the two of them in bridge deals if they had played and already turned into what we all hope they will be? Or they didn't and they are worth what? A 2nd and 3rd round pick at best? I don't think Broberg in particular has been managed well but I am also not under the delusion that had he been, and he developed into a good young top 4 dman that he would be already signed for under $2M. Again we have no idea what these two were asking for and it was obviously more than what pretty much every Oilers fan would have said were good deals or I bet they would have been signed. You can't force players to sign contracts they don't want to and if we had paid them each $2-3 million even everyone would be losing their minds about how bad management is. Everyone wants management to be hard nosed in negotiating and when it fails they blame management. I think they way overvalue what the return on players like this will get in a real trade as well. As I said, all speculation ;-). Negotiations happen behind closed doors so no one really knows outside the agent and KH himself what was or wasn't said, but one thing i liked about kenny was he was always pretty honest and upfront with explanations after he conducted a trade or major move/signing. So if he had turned around and traded them before TDL, I'm pretty sure he'd have came out with his reasons. If those were that they didnt want to sign and didn't see a future with the oilers (rumoured to be the case with Bro) and so he traded them for a bag of pucks rather risk losing for nothing, then I for one would move on, ( probably not before having a good Huberdeau about over-ripening LOL)! This is the same guy who had no qualms inking JP and Yammo to $3M deals and I for one (and i think a few others) thought those were stupid amounts for those guys, but he felt they were a core part of the team and would improve? he was wrong! likewise, he obviously wasn't prepared to offer bro or Hollywood anything like what yammo got and was banking on being able to sign them at a good cap hit at a later date. Obviously he was wrong about that as well. And to put these offers into those perspectives, I'd much rather he'd have bet on bro and hollywood, rather than Yam or JP (basically same cap hits overall) and that's not hindsight. I never really saw what KH saw in JP or Yam, but i've been high on both Bro and hollywood since their first days of training camp and i find it somewhat ironic that Bro was never afforded the same breaks as Bouch given that bouch was a Chirelli pick and bro was KH's first big draftee (a controversial one at that). it's all coulda woulda shoulda, but I just hate when bosses who get paid millions to get things right and then screw up and folks just shrug and say "oh well" how could he have known? That's his ff'ing job and why he gets paid millions. I dont particularly care about excuses, however valid they may be. bosses, Investors brokers etc gamble all the time on certain things happening and the ones who get it right more often than not get paid massively. those that dont, get turfed pronto. It's kind of ironic PC is wrapped up in all this as many blame him for giving KH such a shitpile to deal with he took over, but the shitpile KH left SB is also rapidly growing? some folks will say he left SB a team that came within 1 game of a cup, but IMO, that would be pretty disengenuous as to the real situation SB is now in which is cap hell, no prospects or picks and massive contracts that need to be negotiated (ironically, that all sounds kinda familiar) So you would have been fine for getting peanuts for them at the trade deadline but now it is a major managerial mistake? Look at the list of RFA's that could be offer sheeted right now that have no arbitration rights that haven't been signed. Lots of players better than both Borberg and Holloway. Are all those managers incompetent as well? Or they haven't signed them because the chance of a team actually offer sheeting one let alone two players on your team is so remote every manager in the league doesn't really take it seriously. If you want to blame management (JJ) WTF was Cory Perry resigned for too much money before Holloway or Broberg?
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Post by igibb on Aug 14, 2024 12:25:48 GMT -7
What do you guys think, should we match or not? Too much speed and youth to lose. If we lose them our youngest player is Bouch at 25. It appears that Kane will go on LTIR so this will help but does not solve the problem if he comes back around the new year. Happy at least that this happened before we signed Bouch and Drai. Maybe they will take less now. We cannot afford everybody, our young players wouldn't be cheap anymore. It's not just the two years we pay these Holly/Broberg, their qualifying offers after the two years will be high. Friedman reported Holly wanted 1.25 x 1 yr so he could have arb rights next year while Broberg wanted 1.8 x 2. Too bad management didn't get it done. And then if they had played well this year we would be just as screwed because we would have paid Bouch and Drai and Broberg and Holloway would have had the added leverage of arbitration.
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Post by AlwaysOil on Aug 14, 2024 13:59:26 GMT -7
Pay ‘em, win the cup a few times and then burn it down. Hopefully Blues are competitive then. Trade our talent to their competitors. Offer sheet STL players badly and let their pending UFA’s know we are open for business.Let it be known that if you OS us, you’re gonna take 1 step forward, but 2 steps back we’ll burn your Kuzmenkoing house down.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 14, 2024 16:38:58 GMT -7
As I said, all speculation ;-). Negotiations happen behind closed doors so no one really knows outside the agent and KH himself what was or wasn't said, but one thing i liked about kenny was he was always pretty honest and upfront with explanations after he conducted a trade or major move/signing. So if he had turned around and traded them before TDL, I'm pretty sure he'd have came out with his reasons. If those were that they didnt want to sign and didn't see a future with the oilers (rumoured to be the case with Bro) and so he traded them for a bag of pucks rather risk losing for nothing, then I for one would move on, ( probably not before having a good Huberdeau about over-ripening LOL)! This is the same guy who had no qualms inking JP and Yammo to $3M deals and I for one (and i think a few others) thought those were stupid amounts for those guys, but he felt they were a core part of the team and would improve? he was wrong! likewise, he obviously wasn't prepared to offer bro or Hollywood anything like what yammo got and was banking on being able to sign them at a good cap hit at a later date. Obviously he was wrong about that as well. And to put these offers into those perspectives, I'd much rather he'd have bet on bro and hollywood, rather than Yam or JP (basically same cap hits overall) and that's not hindsight. I never really saw what KH saw in JP or Yam, but i've been high on both Bro and hollywood since their first days of training camp and i find it somewhat ironic that Bro was never afforded the same breaks as Bouch given that bouch was a Chirelli pick and bro was KH's first big draftee (a controversial one at that). it's all coulda woulda shoulda, but I just hate when bosses who get paid millions to get things right and then screw up and folks just shrug and say "oh well" how could he have known? That's his ff'ing job and why he gets paid millions. I dont particularly care about excuses, however valid they may be. bosses, Investors brokers etc gamble all the time on certain things happening and the ones who get it right more often than not get paid massively. those that dont, get turfed pronto. It's kind of ironic PC is wrapped up in all this as many blame him for giving KH such a shitpile to deal with he took over, but the shitpile KH left SB is also rapidly growing? some folks will say he left SB a team that came within 1 game of a cup, but IMO, that would be pretty disengenuous as to the real situation SB is now in which is cap hell, no prospects or picks and massive contracts that need to be negotiated (ironically, that all sounds kinda familiar) So you would have been fine for getting peanuts for them at the trade deadline but now it is a major managerial mistake? Look at the list of RFA's that could be offer sheeted right now that have no arbitration rights that haven't been signed. Lots of players better than both Borberg and Holloway. Are all those managers incompetent as well? Or they haven't signed them because the chance of a team actually offer sheeting one let alone two players on your team is so remote every manager in the league doesn't really take it seriously. If you want to blame management (JJ) WTF was Cory Perry resigned for too much money before Holloway or Broberg? I literally said i'd Huberdeau about it but move on because if KH could explain his reasons why he did it then so be it? Peanuts is a relative term? Do you seriously believe that we would have gotten less than a 2nd for Broberg and a 3rd for Holloway at TDL? The latest rumours coming from friedman is that Broberg wanted $1.8 and holloway $1.2M but that Broberg and maybe holloway as well wanted to wait till season was over to sign? Given that both played well in the playoffs and were given significantly more ice time by Knobby and so were feeling a lot happier about their situations relative to the oilers team, would it have at least made sense to jump on this the second the season ended and got it done as most had expected? Season ended over 2 months ago? Friedman also mentioned that STL specifically waited until right now after the arbitration window had closed and some other deadlines had passed, in order to make this the most awkward time for EDM to match and hence make this the maximum "poison pill" as possible. Shouldn't the management team also have been aware of these implications? Because that suggests to me that there was at least a 2month window after playoffs ended where this could have been wrapped up without any real chance of an offer sheet coming in?? Maybe it would have taken $2M to get Broberg to sign and maybe $1.5 for Holloway? and if they wouldn't then maybe that's when you shop them and see who wants to pay the going rate for a couple of young studs who just shined in a lengthy playoff run? I personally dont think the offers would only be in the 2nd, 3rd rnd range?? By dragging their feet, management left themselves vulnerable to exactly this type of poison pill attack. Someone in management (and i've already said IDK who?), focked up majorly by waiting this long to do something about these 2 and now there's a big pile of shiit to clean up and they now have less than a week to do it. The more info i hear about how this happened and the more I think about it, this is kinda pissing me off more and more, because this is exactly the kind of stupid managerial dipshiit stuff that has been happening for decades and is exactly the reason why we havent won a cup yet despite having maybe the best 1-2 centre combo the league has seen in the last 40yrs. let's just say It doesnt exactly fill me with confidence that they'll come up with a "winning solution"?
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Post by happyhappy on Aug 14, 2024 16:59:42 GMT -7
Whew, you guys have been busy on here, don't you fellas have jobs!  - says the guy who just took like 3 of the last 4 weeks off  So, no much to add, mad like most of y'all and some errors were made by the org for sure in not signing these young guys b4 they became UFA, and so now, repercussions. Our summer started off so fabulous then quickly turned to shite in Aug ugh. We are already the oldest team in the league and losing one or both of these guys will only make us older. Plus, seems like they were just breaking through. Meh. I haven't figured out a good way to deal with our situation, but I do know I'm going to stop predicting our starting line-up for several weeks.  I dunno what the frack is gonna happen anymore! Also, just to add some fuel to the fire, I don't think this has been discussed here and if so I missed it, but, apparently had the Blues offered Holloway 1$ more our compensation would have been a 2nd round pick rather then a 3rd. With Broberg, had they offered 1$ more we would have received a 1st and a 3rd rather then a 2nd for compensation. Armstrong knew exactly what he was doing and stroke while the hammer was hot. Dirty keen dog. The Only good thing I can take from all this is I'm glad it wasn't the Flames who thought of this first lol. Also, Armstrong and Holland have been tight for years and it's interesting these offer sheets didn't appear under Kenny's regime but once he was gone, and Stan became the man, well, BAM, we've been served! Makes a guy wonder. No shortage of Oilers news this summer! Hey Leon - How low you willing to go now!! Good luck Stan! Tickety tock... |
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Post by igibb on Aug 14, 2024 18:11:11 GMT -7
So you would have been fine for getting peanuts for them at the trade deadline but now it is a major managerial mistake? Look at the list of RFA's that could be offer sheeted right now that have no arbitration rights that haven't been signed. Lots of players better than both Borberg and Holloway. Are all those managers incompetent as well? Or they haven't signed them because the chance of a team actually offer sheeting one let alone two players on your team is so remote every manager in the league doesn't really take it seriously. If you want to blame management (JJ) WTF was Cory Perry resigned for too much money before Holloway or Broberg? I literally said i'd Huberdeau about it but move on because if KH could explain his reasons why he did it then so be it? Peanuts is a relative term? Do you seriously believe that we would have gotten less than a 2nd for Broberg and a 3rd for Holloway at TDL? The latest rumours coming from friedman is that Broberg wanted $1.8 and holloway $1.2M but that Broberg and maybe holloway as well wanted to wait till season was over to sign? Given that both played well in the playoffs and were given significantly more ice time by Knobby and so were feeling a lot happier about their situations relative to the oilers team, would it have at least made sense to jump on this the second the season ended and got it done as most had expected? Season ended over 2 months ago? Friedman also mentioned that STL specifically waited until right now after the arbitration window had closed and some other deadlines had passed, in order to make this the most awkward time for EDM to match and hence make this the maximum "poison pill" as possible. Shouldn't the management team also have been aware of these implications? Because that suggests to me that there was at least a 2month window after playoffs ended where this could have been wrapped up without any real chance of an offer sheet coming in?? Maybe it would have taken $2M to get Broberg to sign and maybe $1.5 for Holloway? and if they wouldn't then maybe that's when you shop them and see who wants to pay the going rate for a couple of young studs who just shined in a lengthy playoff run? I personally dont think the offers would only be in the 2nd, 3rd rnd range?? By dragging their feet, management left themselves vulnerable to exactly this type of poison pill attack. Someone in management (and i've already said IDK who?), focked up majorly by waiting this long to do something about these 2 and now there's a big pile of shiit to clean up and they now have less than a week to do it. The more info i hear about how this happened and the more I think about it, this is kinda pissing me off more and more, because this is exactly the kind of stupid managerial dipshiit stuff that has been happening for decades and is exactly the reason why we havent won a cup yet despite having maybe the best 1-2 centre combo the league has seen in the last 40yrs. let's just say It doesnt exactly fill me with confidence that they'll come up with a "winning solution"? This is the problem with most fans postulating about what "they should have done" they don't actually know the rules of the league. There is no 2 month window after the playoffs to trade them there was 6 days. Their contracts both expired on June 30th so you cannot "shop them" if they don't sign because they are not yours to shop. So no I don't believe there was any chance they were getting more than a 2nd and a 3rd in the 6 day window they had to try and trade them, in fact they probably would have gotten less, because the other team has no guarantee they are trading for anything concrete. Freidman also said there was zero chance that Broberg was signing before the summer so it's not like this was getting done 6 months ago. Both were also only signing one year deals to take them to eligibility for arbitration rights (they both said so)so after a one year contract and after we had already paid Bouch and Drai we are in the exact same position next year with two players who are hopefully much better and have even more leverage in contract negotiation. Broberg and his agent knew what they were doing and got extra lucky that St Louis suddenly had a need and the cap space to over pay for a Dman when it was announced Krug was probably out for the year which wasn't until mid July. Had that not happened this whole conversation wouldn't be happening because the Blues would have neither the need or cap space to have done this. Holloway got even luckier because I don't think the Blues even really want him and are using him as added leverage to get Broberg in the hope the Oilers won't match both and keep the cheaper player.
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 14, 2024 20:13:12 GMT -7
Less and less into the camp of matching now. Justin Schultz and Phil Zadina are out there still, among others. Wonder how cheap they can be had.
Shocked at all the good RFAs out there unsigned still. Lots of good players.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 15, 2024 7:27:36 GMT -7
I literally said i'd Huberdeau about it but move on because if KH could explain his reasons why he did it then so be it? Peanuts is a relative term? Do you seriously believe that we would have gotten less than a 2nd for Broberg and a 3rd for Holloway at TDL? The latest rumours coming from friedman is that Broberg wanted $1.8 and holloway $1.2M but that Broberg and maybe holloway as well wanted to wait till season was over to sign? Given that both played well in the playoffs and were given significantly more ice time by Knobby and so were feeling a lot happier about their situations relative to the oilers team, would it have at least made sense to jump on this the second the season ended and got it done as most had expected? Season ended over 2 months ago? Friedman also mentioned that STL specifically waited until right now after the arbitration window had closed and some other deadlines had passed, in order to make this the most awkward time for EDM to match and hence make this the maximum "poison pill" as possible. Shouldn't the management team also have been aware of these implications? Because that suggests to me that there was at least a 2month window after playoffs ended where this could have been wrapped up without any real chance of an offer sheet coming in?? Maybe it would have taken $2M to get Broberg to sign and maybe $1.5 for Holloway? and if they wouldn't then maybe that's when you shop them and see who wants to pay the going rate for a couple of young studs who just shined in a lengthy playoff run? I personally dont think the offers would only be in the 2nd, 3rd rnd range?? By dragging their feet, management left themselves vulnerable to exactly this type of poison pill attack. Someone in management (and i've already said IDK who?), focked up majorly by waiting this long to do something about these 2 and now there's a big pile of shiit to clean up and they now have less than a week to do it. The more info i hear about how this happened and the more I think about it, this is kinda pissing me off more and more, because this is exactly the kind of stupid managerial dipshiit stuff that has been happening for decades and is exactly the reason why we havent won a cup yet despite having maybe the best 1-2 centre combo the league has seen in the last 40yrs. let's just say It doesnt exactly fill me with confidence that they'll come up with a "winning solution"? This is the problem with most fans postulating about what "they should have done" they don't actually know the rules of the league. There is no 2 month window after the playoffs to trade them there was 6 days. Their contracts both expired on June 30th so you cannot "shop them" if they don't sign because they are not yours to shop. So no I don't believe there was any chance they were getting more than a 2nd and a 3rd in the 6 day window they had to try and trade them, in fact they probably would have gotten less, because the other team has no guarantee they are trading for anything concrete. Freidman also said there was zero chance that Broberg was signing before the summer so it's not like this was getting done 6 months ago. Both were also only signing one year deals to take them to eligibility for arbitration rights (they both said so)so after a one year contract and after we had already paid Bouch and Drai we are in the exact same position next year with two players who are hopefully much better and have even more leverage in contract negotiation. Broberg and his agent knew what they were doing and got extra lucky that St Louis suddenly had a need and the cap space to over pay for a Dman when it was announced Krug was probably out for the year which wasn't until mid July. Had that not happened this whole conversation wouldn't be happening because the Blues would have neither the need or cap space to have done this. Holloway got even luckier because I don't think the Blues even really want him and are using him as added leverage to get Broberg in the hope the Oilers won't match both and keep the cheaper player. Maybe i misunderstood what friedman said in his podcast but he distinctly said that Armstrong waited until now so that it would maximise the difficulty for the oilers to match and that if he had tried to do this sooner then the oilers could have had other options, including trades that would/could also create another 48hr buyout window?? So by trade i thought he meant they could trade them up until that point and maybe that's not the case? It still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers had almost an entire year to sort this out and didn't? Go ahead and defend the management who get paid millions to supposedly make sure these things dont happen? Every team in the league has what they consider top prospects, including the teams who are contenders and as tight to the cap as we are, yet i dont see them getting ripped off for pennies on the dollar with offer sheets flying in? why? Because they sort their business out either by signing them or trading them before this happens? To be brutally honest, Broberg and holloway are nowhere near "top prospects" in this league, but they do just happen to be some of the best ones out there freely available to be offer sheeted? As for the cap hell we are in that created this scenario? I guess that's not management's fault either? The poor babies our doing the best they can and maths can be a hard subject, its not their fault!
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Post by igibb on Aug 15, 2024 18:56:47 GMT -7
Shocked at all the good RFAs out there unsigned still. Lots of good players. Yup and everyone is freaking out that we have terrible management because we didn't already sign two middling RFA's when guys like Jeremy Swayman and Seth Jarvis are still out there unsigned. Guess the Bruins and Canes have terrible management as well. We didn't sign Bouchard until the 24th of August. No one swooped in a offer sheeted him and he was a much more hyped player than either Holloway or Broberg.
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Post by igibb on Aug 15, 2024 19:08:29 GMT -7
This is the problem with most fans postulating about what "they should have done" they don't actually know the rules of the league. There is no 2 month window after the playoffs to trade them there was 6 days. Their contracts both expired on June 30th so you cannot "shop them" if they don't sign because they are not yours to shop. So no I don't believe there was any chance they were getting more than a 2nd and a 3rd in the 6 day window they had to try and trade them, in fact they probably would have gotten less, because the other team has no guarantee they are trading for anything concrete. Freidman also said there was zero chance that Broberg was signing before the summer so it's not like this was getting done 6 months ago. Both were also only signing one year deals to take them to eligibility for arbitration rights (they both said so)so after a one year contract and after we had already paid Bouch and Drai we are in the exact same position next year with two players who are hopefully much better and have even more leverage in contract negotiation. Broberg and his agent knew what they were doing and got extra lucky that St Louis suddenly had a need and the cap space to over pay for a Dman when it was announced Krug was probably out for the year which wasn't until mid July. Had that not happened this whole conversation wouldn't be happening because the Blues would have neither the need or cap space to have done this. Holloway got even luckier because I don't think the Blues even really want him and are using him as added leverage to get Broberg in the hope the Oilers won't match both and keep the cheaper player. Maybe i misunderstood what friedman said in his podcast but he distinctly said that Armstrong waited until now so that it would maximise the difficulty for the oilers to match and that if he had tried to do this sooner then the oilers could have had other options, including trades that would/could also create another 48hr buyout window?? So by trade i thought he meant they could trade them up until that point and maybe that's not the case? It still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers had almost an entire year to sort this out and didn't? Go ahead and defend the management who get paid millions to supposedly make sure these things dont happen? Every team in the league has what they consider top prospects, including the teams who are contenders and as tight to the cap as we are, yet i dont see them getting ripped off for pennies on the dollar with offer sheets flying in? why? Because they sort their business out either by signing them or trading them before this happens? To be brutally honest, Broberg and holloway are nowhere near "top prospects" in this league, but they do just happen to be some of the best ones out there freely available to be offer sheeted? As for the cap hell we are in that created this scenario? I guess that's not management's fault either? The poor babies our doing the best they can and maths can be a hard subject, its not their fault! You can't trade a player you don't have signed and as soon as June 30 rolled around they were no longer signed. It is why teams have to qualify them the day after the draft because if they don't the players become UFA's because they have no contract. Really no other teams have good unsigned RFA's? Jeremy Swayman, Seth Jarvis, Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Matthew Beniers, Cole Perfetti are all still unsigned RFA's and all are worth a hell of a lot more than either Broberg or Holloway guess those teams have terrible management as well? There are 10 guys on the list of unsigned RFA's who had more points last year than Holloway has in his career. Must be a lot of bad management out there.
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Post by vaoiler on Aug 15, 2024 19:47:34 GMT -7
Shocked at all the good RFAs out there unsigned still. Lots of good players. Yup and everyone is freaking out that we have terrible management because we didn't already sign two middling RFA's when guys like Jeremy Swayman and Seth Jarvis are still out there unsigned. Guess the Bruins and Canes have terrible management as well. We didn't sign Bouchard until the 24th of August. No one swooped in an offer sheeted him and he was a much more hyped player than either Holloway or Broberg. I guess I am in the minority. As much as I liked Holloway’s play the last two months of the season, I’m cool with letting both walk. We have already spent plenty of money poorly and are still paying for it (Nurse, Campbell, etc). Broberg has made it clear he wanted out and now he’s getting his wish. They both get paid. We save money and don’t have to recreate plenty of bad situations over the years. Puljujarvi comes to mind. Management tore him down so much in public that we ruined any trade value he might have had before he left for Finland. And after he got back, the team did the same thing and was bewildered why they couldn’t get much for him. I could see something like this playing out with matching Broberg’s offer. Our penchant for airing the dirty laundry and him wanting out would yank his value. Either way, bye Broberg and Holloway, it was cool while it lasted. |
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 16, 2024 6:54:33 GMT -7
Yup and everyone is freaking out that we have terrible management because we didn't already sign two middling RFA's when guys like Jeremy Swayman and Seth Jarvis are still out there unsigned. Guess the Bruins and Canes have terrible management as well. We didn't sign Bouchard until the 24th of August. No one swooped in an offer sheeted him and he was a much more hyped player than either Holloway or Broberg. I guess I am in the minority. As much as I liked Holloway’s play the last two months of the season, I’m cool with letting both walk. We have already spent plenty of money poorly and are still paying for it (Nurse, Campbell, etc). Broberg has made it clear he wanted out and now he’s getting his wish. They both get paid. We save money and don’t have to recreate plenty of bad situations over the years. Puljujarvi comes to mind. Management tore him down so much in public that we ruined any trade value he might have had before he left for Finland. And after he got back, the team did the same thing and was bewildered why they couldn’t get much for him. I could see something like this playing out with matching Broberg’s offer. Our penchant for airing the dirty laundry and him wanting out would yank his value. Either way, bye Broberg and Holloway, it was cool while it lasted. Agree with you. To add, maybe Kane is ready to go so the LTIR route may not be there. Having to trade Ceci and Kulak to make room for these two plus give away picks to make the trades and getting nothing back. It's bonkers. www.tsn.ca/nhl/report-edmonton-oilers-exploring-cody-ceci-brett-kulak-trades-to-clear-cap-space-for-offer-sheets-1.2162752
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Post by fogolin2 on Aug 16, 2024 7:42:02 GMT -7
I guess I am in the minority. As much as I liked Holloway’s play the last two months of the season, I’m cool with letting both walk. We have already spent plenty of money poorly and are still paying for it (Nurse, Campbell, etc). Broberg has made it clear he wanted out and now he’s getting his wish. They both get paid. We save money and don’t have to recreate plenty of bad situations over the years. Puljujarvi comes to mind. Management tore him down so much in public that we ruined any trade value he might have had before he left for Finland. And after he got back, the team did the same thing and was bewildered why they couldn’t get much for him. I could see something like this playing out with matching Broberg’s offer. Our penchant for airing the dirty laundry and him wanting out would yank his value. Either way, bye Broberg and Holloway, it was cool while it lasted. Agree with you. To add, maybe Kane is ready to go so the LTIR route may not be there. Having to trade Ceci and Kulak to make room for these two plus give away picks to make the trades and getting nothing back. It's bonkers. www.tsn.ca/nhl/report-edmonton-oilers-exploring-cody-ceci-brett-kulak-trades-to-clear-cap-space-for-offer-sheets-1.2162752 KH could have avoided all this by trading Broberg back in November when he asked. He's never rescinded the request btw. Holloway I could take or leave at that price.
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 16, 2024 7:47:36 GMT -7
KH could have avoided all this by trading Broberg back in November when he asked. He's never rescinded the request btw. Holloway I could take or leave at that price. Yep there is this as well. Can't blame Broberg for not wanting to play in the minors, over ripening can piss off your young players. Match or not, he may not wanna be here.
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- says the guy who just took like 3 of the last 4 weeks off 
I dunno what the frack is gonna happen anymore!
