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Post by drtaf on Oct 10, 2019 20:47:10 GMT -7
Kosko .914 2.42 Smith .844 5.01 After only 2 games each, and FOUR WINS, I'm not sure it means anything but will be interesting to follow their progress. well I won't call it "breaking the cycle" just yet but Kosk has started to break away from the "Smith Peloton"
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Post by BoomnotBust on Oct 10, 2019 22:46:17 GMT -7
Kosko .914 2.42 Smith .844 5.01 After only 2 games each, and FOUR WINS, I'm not sure it means anything but will be interesting to follow their progress. I haven't been a fan but gotta say Koskinen was good tonight.
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 13, 2019 10:52:18 GMT -7
Goals Against shows the same inconsistency of the Oilers goaltenders as last year. I expect the same to continue all season.
Don't be fooled by a better team playing in front of average goaltending, into believing the goaltending is anything but inconsistent and thus average.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Oct 13, 2019 10:55:30 GMT -7
Goals Against shows the same inconsistency of the Oilers goaltenders as last year. I expect the same to continue all season. Don't be fooled by a better team playing in front of average goaltending, into believing the goaltending is anything but inconsistent and thus average. Majority of the games we’ve let in 2 goals or less. NJ we let in 3, which isn’t horrible. It was the LA game that pushed the GAA up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 13, 2019 11:12:29 GMT -7
Goals Against shows the same inconsistency of the Oilers goaltenders as last year. I expect the same to continue all season. Don't be fooled by a better team playing in front of average goaltending, into believing the goaltending is anything but inconsistent and thus average. Majority of the games we’ve let in 2 goals or less. NJ we let in 3, which isn’t horrible. It was the LA game that pushed the GAA up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 12 goals against in the first 4 games was not good. The one goal against with NYR was an easy game to be an Oiler goaltender, and has lowered it. I suspect game 6 or 7 will once again elevate GA. Its inconsistent thus far. Two not so good games. Three decent. Not a game stolen by the goaltending yet. All games won by the team. The team deserved to win because they were better, as a team, than the other guys. Until the goaltending starts stealing games, they are average.
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Post by mrtea on Oct 13, 2019 11:39:57 GMT -7
Majority of the games we’ve let in 2 goals or less. NJ we let in 3, which isn’t horrible. It was the LA game that pushed the GAA up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 12 goals against in the first 4 games was not good. The one goal against with NYR was an easy game to be an Oiler goaltender, and has lowered it. I suspect game 6 or 7 will once again elevate GA. Its inconsistent thus far. Two not so good games. Three decent. Not a game stolen by the goaltending yet. All games won by the team. The team deserved to win because they were better, as a team, than the other guys. Until the goaltending starts stealing games, they are average. At the moment average is good though. Our improved team and especially defense helps average goaltenders look good just like other NHL teams have been doing for years against us. We've had average to good goaltenders look terrible on this team because defensively they were left exposed and made to look worse than they would on a team with good defense. It's an improvement over last season and much better than anyone has predicted our goaltending would be. So instead of terrible goaltending we have average goaltending that looks good because they are being helped by the defense. I'll take that over the predictions at the start of the offseason of what our goaltending would look like. Our goal is too make the play offs not win the cup, but if we make the play offs we'll do our best. We have time in the next few seasons to improve our goaltending by bringing up our own prospects, trading or signing a free agent. All in all I'm fine with waiting to see who emerges as our best goalie and at what level they can climb to. It's better than it was predicted to be and that's a good thing.
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 13, 2019 12:06:26 GMT -7
12 goals against in the first 4 games was not good. The one goal against with NYR was an easy game to be an Oiler goaltender, and has lowered it. I suspect game 6 or 7 will once again elevate GA. Its inconsistent thus far. Two not so good games. Three decent. Not a game stolen by the goaltending yet. All games won by the team. The team deserved to win because they were better, as a team, than the other guys. Until the goaltending starts stealing games, they are average. At the moment average is good though. Our improved team and especially defense helps average goaltenders look good just like other NHL teams have been doing for years against us. We've had average to good goaltenders look terrible on this team because defensively they were left exposed and made to look worse than they would on a team with good defense. It's an improvement over last season and much better than anyone has predicted our goaltending would be. So instead of terrible goaltending we have average goaltending that looks good because they are being helped by the defense. I'll take that over the predictions at the start of the offseason of what our goaltending would look like. Our goal is too make the play offs not win the cup, but if we make the play offs we'll do our best. We have time in the next few seasons to improve our goaltending by bringing up our own prospects, trading or signing a free agent. All in all I'm fine with waiting to see who emerges as our best goalie and at what level they can climb to. It's better than it was predicted to be and that's a good thing. I agree. The way we are playing, average goaltending is good enough. Before the season started, I didn't think average would get us there. I didn't expect the defenders to look so confident with the puck as a group, right out of the gate. Teams have won it all with average goaltending. ... its rare, but it does happen, if the team is playing well enough as a unified group.
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Post by blackhawk216 on Oct 13, 2019 22:29:48 GMT -7
Majority of the games we’ve let in 2 goals or less. NJ we let in 3, which isn’t horrible. It was the LA game that pushed the GAA up. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 12 goals against in the first 4 games was not good. The one goal against with NYR was an easy game to be an Oiler goaltender, and has lowered it. I suspect game 6 or 7 will once again elevate GA. Its inconsistent thus far. Two not so good games. Three decent. Not a game stolen by the goaltending yet. All games won by the team. The team deserved to win because they were better, as a team, than the other guys. Until the goaltending starts stealing games, they are average. I don't know what constitutes "a game being stolen by the goaltending", but Smith v Vancouver was a very good game from him (we would have lost that game with first shot (again tonight) Talbot in goal), Smith v NYR very good, and Kosk pretty good v NYI (not really required to steal a game when the guys in front of you score 5) and the Devils. "12 goals in the first 4 games was not good" you wrote...………..but 13 in the first 5 if projected for the season puts us better defensively than all of the top four teams in the NHL last season bar one, and only one goal worse than that team. At our current allowance of goals, projected over 82 games, we will concede 213. Last season, Tampa Bay let in 221, Boston 212, Calgary 223 and Washington 218. And you call that "inconsistent"? You took the NYR game out to prove a point, if we take the LA game out, we are averaging just two goals against per game for the other four. Don't pick and choose Deutsch just to prove a point, lets analyse the whole body of work shall we?
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 14, 2019 8:44:34 GMT -7
12 goals against in the first 4 games was not good. The one goal against with NYR was an easy game to be an Oiler goaltender, and has lowered it. I suspect game 6 or 7 will once again elevate GA. Its inconsistent thus far. Two not so good games. Three decent. Not a game stolen by the goaltending yet. All games won by the team. The team deserved to win because they were better, as a team, than the other guys. Until the goaltending starts stealing games, they are average. I don't know what constitutes "a game being stolen by the goaltending", but Smith v Vancouver was a very good game from him (we would have lost that game with first shot (again tonight) Talbot in goal), Smith v NYR very good, and Kosk pretty good v NYI (not really required to steal a game when the guys in front of you score 5) and the Devils. "12 goals in the first 4 games was not good" you wrote...………..but 13 in the first 5 if projected for the season puts us better defensively than all of the top four teams in the NHL last season bar one, and only one goal worse than that team. At our current allowance of goals, projected over 82 games, we will concede 213. Last season, Tampa Bay let in 221, Boston 212, Calgary 223 and Washington 218. And you call that "inconsistent"? You took the NYR game out to prove a point, if we take the LA game out, we are averaging just two goals against per game for the other four. Don't pick and choose Deutsch just to prove a point, lets analyse the whole body of work shall we? I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games, and 2 GA is the top 10.
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 14, 2019 9:00:36 GMT -7
I don't know what constitutes "a game being stolen by the goaltending", but Smith v Vancouver was a very good game from him (we would have lost that game with first shot (again tonight) Talbot in goal), Smith v NYR very good, and Kosk pretty good v NYI (not really required to steal a game when the guys in front of you score 5) and the Devils. "12 goals in the first 4 games was not good" you wrote...………..but 13 in the first 5 if projected for the season puts us better defensively than all of the top four teams in the NHL last season bar one, and only one goal worse than that team. At our current allowance of goals, projected over 82 games, we will concede 213. Last season, Tampa Bay let in 221, Boston 212, Calgary 223 and Washington 218. And you call that "inconsistent"? You took the NYR game out to prove a point, if we take the LA game out, we are averaging just two goals against per game for the other four. Don't pick and choose Deutsch just to prove a point, lets analyse the whole body of work shall we? I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games, and 2 GA is the top 10. I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. (Struggling with the new board and where to type responses) I am unwilling to pretend, after 5 games, that the goaltending (a tandem that has a history of inconsistency), has been anything but inconsistent. Good at times, but they have allowed some poor goals that had nothing to do with poor defensive play. Until I see them playing like Lundquist did in NY, holding his team in a game that NY had no business being close after two periods, I won't say our goaltending is anything but what it is .... Average. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games.
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Post by fogolin2 on Oct 14, 2019 9:10:08 GMT -7
I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. (Struggling with the new board and where to type responses) I am unwilling to pretend, after 5 games, that the goaltending (a tandem that has a history of inconsistency), has been anything but inconsistent. Good at times, but they have allowed some poor goals that had nothing to do with poor defensive play. Until I see them playing like Lundquist did in NY, holding his team in a game that NY had no business being close after two periods, I won't say our goaltending is anything but what it is .... Average. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games. Average goaltending is a big improvement over what we had the last 2 years.
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 14, 2019 11:33:18 GMT -7
I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. (Struggling with the new board and where to type responses) I am unwilling to pretend, after 5 games, that the goaltending (a tandem that has a history of inconsistency), has been anything but inconsistent. Good at times, but they have allowed some poor goals that had nothing to do with poor defensive play. Until I see them playing like Lundquist did in NY, holding his team in a game that NY had no business being close after two periods, I won't say our goaltending is anything but what it is .... Average. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games. Average goaltending is a big improvement over what we had the last 2 years. Totally Agree. But that doesn't make it anything special. However, I think the subpar defensive puck moving accounted for the "below average" before. A "below average" which was actually average, but on a weak team vs. an average, but on a seemingly strong team .... Both are average.
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Post by blackhawk216 on Oct 14, 2019 11:36:12 GMT -7
I disagree about the Vancouver game. Both goals were weak. (Struggling with the new board and where to type responses) I am unwilling to pretend, after 5 games, that the goaltending (a tandem that has a history of inconsistency), has been anything but inconsistent. Good at times, but they have allowed some poor goals that had nothing to do with poor defensive play. Until I see them playing like Lundquist did in NY, holding his team in a game that NY had no business being close after two periods, I won't say our goaltending is anything but what it is .... Average. As the season progresses we will see. 13 goals against in 5 is 2.6 GAA .... in a league where 2.5 GF wins games. I just stated that 2.6 goals against is better than 3 of the top four teams achieved last season and you come back with that tosh? We averaged last season 3.3 goals per game conceded ie 271...……….we are currently on par for 213...……….that is a significant improvement and no amount of your smoke and mirrors stats can disprove that. Also at the other end of the ice, if 2.5 GF wins games, then all we have to do is to score 205 to win the Stanley Cup, right? I would be interested to know when was the last time a team scored 205 and won the cup? If true, and from what you say, as we are currently scoring at a rate of 4.4 per game, they may as well start engraving our name on the cup. Or, alternatively, you might want to check your stats again Deutsch.
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Post by fogolin2 on Oct 14, 2019 11:38:07 GMT -7
Average goaltending is a big improvement over what we had the last 2 years. Totally Agree. But that doesn't make it anything special. However, I think the subpar defensive puck moving accounted for the "below average" before. A "below average" which was actually average, but on a weak team vs. an average, but on a seemingly strong team .... Both are average. Time in our zone was a problem, but not a goaltending specific problem. Soft, Schwartz-side goals, are a goaltending specific problem. Koskinen not being able to catch is a goaltending specific problem. Both of those things look improved in our first 5 games. Small sample, for sure.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Oct 14, 2019 12:10:48 GMT -7
2018-19 St. Louis Blues: GF - 244, 2.98. GA - 244. GA/G - 2.68 2017-18 Washington Capitals: GF - 256, 3.12. GA - 238, 2.90 2016-17 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 278, 3.39. GA - 229, 2.79 2015-16 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 241, 2.94. GA - 199, 2.43 2014-15 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 220, 2.68. GA - 186, 2.27 2013-14 Los Angeles Kings: GF - 198, 2.41 GA - 168, 2.05 2012-13 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 149, 3.10. GA - 98, 2.02
It looks like, the GF and GA are slowly rising among SC winners. If the Blues were at the top of the league the whole season, instead of in the basement for half, I'm suure they're GF would be well over 3 per game. Their GA per game probably would too. If not over 3, then very close to 3.
Deutch and Blackhawk are both right.
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Post by blackhawk216 on Oct 14, 2019 12:39:56 GMT -7
2018-19 St. Louis Blues: GF - 244, 2.98. GA - 244. GA/G - 2.68 2017-18 Washington Capitals: GF - 256, 3.12. GA - 238, 2.90 2016-17 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 278, 3.39. GA - 229, 2.79 2015-16 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 241, 2.94. GA - 199, 2.43 2014-15 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 220, 2.68. GA - 186, 2.27 2013-14 Los Angeles Kings: GF - 198, 2.41 GA - 168, 2.05 2012-13 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 149, 3.10. GA - 98, 2.02 It looks like, the GF and GA are slowly rising among SC winners. If the Blues were at the top of the league the whole season, instead of in the basement for half, I'm suure they're GF would be well over 3 per game. Their GA per game probably would too. If not over 3, then very close to 3. Deutch and Blackhawk are both right. Interesting for sure, and I acknowledge that Deutsch does know his stuff. I know we won't keep it up, but at our current rate of scoring we are looking at a total goals scored over 82 games of 360 . Looks like the experts are right, better defense does lead to better offense. Perhaps we had better wait until about game 20 before making too many assumptions?
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 14, 2019 12:41:16 GMT -7
2018-19 St. Louis Blues: GF - 244, 2.98. GA - 244. GA/G - 2.68 2017-18 Washington Capitals: GF - 256, 3.12. GA - 238, 2.90 2016-17 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 278, 3.39. GA - 229, 2.79 2015-16 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 241, 2.94. GA - 199, 2.43 2014-15 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 220, 2.68. GA - 186, 2.27 2013-14 Los Angeles Kings: GF - 198, 2.41 GA - 168, 2.05 2012-13 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 149, 3.10. GA - 98, 2.02 It looks like, the GF and GA are slowly rising among SC winners. If the Blues were at the top of the league the whole season, instead of in the basement for half, I'm suure they're GF would be well over 3 per game. Their GA per game probably would too. If not over 3, then very close to 3. Deutch and Blackhawk are both right. Thanks. My point stands. Average goaltending in the NHL is fine. But I won't pretend that it is somehow exceptional. It is still a concern for improvement. For people to pretend that I have somehow offended the Gods of Justice or the Positivity Police by not affirming the goaltending as Good or Great, is just ridiculous.
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Post by unrefinedcrude on Oct 14, 2019 12:55:07 GMT -7
2018-19 St. Louis Blues: GF - 244, 2.98. GA - 244. GA/G - 2.68 2017-18 Washington Capitals: GF - 256, 3.12. GA - 238, 2.90 2016-17 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 278, 3.39. GA - 229, 2.79 2015-16 Pittsburgh Penguins: GF - 241, 2.94. GA - 199, 2.43 2014-15 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 220, 2.68. GA - 186, 2.27 2013-14 Los Angeles Kings: GF - 198, 2.41 GA - 168, 2.05 2012-13 Chicago Blackhawks: GF - 149, 3.10. GA - 98, 2.02 It looks like, the GF and GA are slowly rising among SC winners. If the Blues were at the top of the league the whole season, instead of in the basement for half, I'm suure they're GF would be well over 3 per game. Their GA per game probably would too. If not over 3, then very close to 3. Deutch and Blackhawk are both right. Thanks. My point stands. Average goaltending in the NHL is fine. But I won't pretend that it is somehow exceptional. It is still a concern for improvement. For people to pretend that I have somehow offended the Gods of Justice or the Positivity Police by not affirming the goaltending as Good or Great, is just ridiculous. Average goaltending is a positive (for us,) though. Without the constant soul destroying 1st shot goals the team can play a different game. (Yes, he wasn't as bad last year as before, but it was still very bad,) I think we'll maintain average to slightly above average for most of the year, since a lot of goaltending stats are really an extension of team stats in the modern game. Teams not playing from behind and not always afraid every shot could go in can play with more confidence, not always chasing lets you settle in to the game plan. My hope is that this soft start to the schedule lets the team turn "the system" into a habit before they face tougher challenges. If we keep the ball rolling we'll be in the hunt for a playoff spot. I think it's too tall an order to actually improve the situation in net this season, it's more of a long term goal when we are able to free up more money at the end of the year. Right now though, our net gives us a chance to win on most nights, and that is such a vast improvement we should just enjoy the ride, and worry about the next step when its time to take that next step. Last year Smith played more than good enough to win in the playoffs against the Avs, but the rest of the fLames were so woefully bad he didn't have a prayer. I think our current lineup is good enough to get into the playoffs, and depending on the opponent maybe even eke out a first round win. We're not a Cup contender yet, and Goal isn't the only upgrade we need to take that stride.
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Post by sharptooth on Oct 14, 2019 13:59:34 GMT -7
All of you have valid points.
Sorry to go off topic but just wanted to let everyone know the new set of five games begins tonight for those of you interested in getting your prediction in.
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Post by DeutschOil on Oct 14, 2019 14:02:56 GMT -7
Thanks. My point stands. Average goaltending in the NHL is fine. But I won't pretend that it is somehow exceptional. It is still a concern for improvement. For people to pretend that I have somehow offended the Gods of Justice or the Positivity Police by not affirming the goaltending as Good or Great, is just ridiculous. Average goaltending is a positive (for us,) though. Without the constant soul destroying 1st shot goals the team can play a different game. (Yes, he wasn't as bad last year as before, but it was still very bad,) I think we'll maintain average to slightly above average for most of the year, since a lot of goaltending stats are really an extension of team stats in the modern game. Teams not playing from behind and not always afraid every shot could go in can play with more confidence, not always chasing lets you settle in to the game plan. My hope is that this soft start to the schedule lets the team turn "the system" into a habit before they face tougher challenges. If we keep the ball rolling we'll be in the hunt for a playoff spot. I think it's too tall an order to actually improve the situation in net this season, it's more of a long term goal when we are able to free up more money at the end of the year. Right now though, our net gives us a chance to win on most nights, and that is such a vast improvement we should just enjoy the ride, and worry about the next step when its time to take that next step. Last year Smith played more than good enough to win in the playoffs against the Avs, but the rest of the fLames were so woefully bad he didn't have a prayer. I think our current lineup is good enough to get into the playoffs, and depending on the opponent maybe even eke out a first round win. We're not a Cup contender yet, and Goal isn't the only upgrade we need to take that stride. Quite Frankly, I thought saying we had "average" goaltending was going to be taken as a positive. But for some reason, posters are claiming that statement as a negative. I don't see why so many are jumping at the bit to argue about positives.
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