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Post by SuperDave17 on Nov 10, 2020 23:43:40 GMT -7
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Post by windsoroiler on Nov 11, 2020 8:39:15 GMT -7
What a bunch of smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking in this thread.
"4) His gap control isn't great at times. And that can sometimes mean losing and then chasing his man, leading to chances against or bad penalties. But he usually recovers, keeps his man to his back, cuts off pucks and then makes a breakout play."
What do you think would happen to him in the NHL?
Sounds to me like he has more work to do. As for our other prospects we shall see with time.
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Post by mrtea on Nov 11, 2020 10:32:22 GMT -7
What a bunch of smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking in this thread. "4) His gap control isn't great at times. And that can sometimes mean losing and then chasing his man, leading to chances against or bad penalties. But he usually recovers, keeps his man to his back, cuts off pucks and then makes a breakout play." What do you think would happen to him in the NHL? Sounds to me like he has more work to do. As for our other prospects we shall see with time. Before you cut Bouchard from the team you might want to remember that the assessment you quoted came from him playing on the larger European ice surface. He had to learn and adjust to that larger ice surface, which it seems he is doing better all the time. That is what we want to hear about a developing prospect, the fact that he is developing. Our other prospects seem to be developing nicely also, but it doesn't seem like that is up to your standards from reading your last post.
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Post by drtaf on Nov 11, 2020 13:57:33 GMT -7
100% agree T. The fact a rookie "Sounds to me like he has more work to do, and As for our other prospects we shall see with time", is kind of a redundant comment, Rookies will always have "more work to do"! Indeed even veterans can always improve their game and grow and evolve into something better. Come to think of it, There's more work to do for both McD and Drai as well, since they havent won any rings and cups yet! And yes, time answers all questions, especially when it pertains to how NHL players get judged. An accurate picture rarely emerges until after they retire:-). I understand you may want to curb the enthiusiasm around here Windsor, but this is a "Fan" forum after all and people do like to get hyped up or angry, especially when there's 'f'all else to talk about atm! So in that sense, mission accomplished!
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Post by windsoroiler on Nov 11, 2020 16:54:36 GMT -7
You guys are making my post seem worse than it is. Do you remember Justin Shultz? If you need entertainment great, I'm not going to buy into the hype
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Post by mrtea on Nov 11, 2020 17:12:45 GMT -7
You guys are making my post seem worse than it is. Do you remember Justin Shultz? If you need entertainment great, I'm not going to buy into the hype You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Nov 11, 2020 17:17:58 GMT -7
You guys are making my post seem worse than it is. Do you remember Justin Shultz? If you need entertainment great, I'm not going to buy into the hype You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary. When I hear “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” that translates to “long shot” in my mind.
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Post by mrtea on Nov 11, 2020 17:27:29 GMT -7
You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary. When I hear “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” that translates to “long shot” in my mind. Or it could be used to say there was fraudulent intentions or deception of some sort, but I’ll go along with long shot.
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Post by windsoroiler on Nov 11, 2020 23:21:55 GMT -7
You guys are making my post seem worse than it is. Do you remember Justin Shultz? If you need entertainment great, I'm not going to buy into the hype You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary. I then gave the Justin Schultz example. WE rushed him, we expected too much from him. He was a long shot to make it back and he managed to...
How many players have we said would be good? Bouch is a top 10 pick and with time he should be a top 4 D. He needs to work on his foot speed and I still see him flat footed or floating at times. Until Bouch plays and proves himself in the NHL it's all smoke and mirrors. Even Bear had a good season last year but there is such a thing as the sophomore slump. Would like to see his progress continue not regress. We are all fans and on the same team here. Relax
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Post by mrtea on Nov 12, 2020 4:17:14 GMT -7
You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary. I then gave the Justin Schultz example. WE rushed him, we expected too much from him. He was a long shot to make it back and he managed to...
How many players have we said would be good? Bouch is a top 10 pick and with time he should be a top 4 D. He needs to work on his foot speed and I still see him flat footed or floating at times. Until Bouch plays and proves himself in the NHL it's all smoke and mirrors. Even Bear had a good season last year but there is such a thing as the sophomore slump. Would like to see his progress continue not regress. We are all fans and on the same team here. Relax
If I was any more relaxed I'd be asleep. Now it seems you are more relaxed also, but you started off quite aggressive and were responded to similarly. When you post something more toned down like this post then we can respond likewise. We all hope for the best for this team.
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Post by drtaf on Nov 12, 2020 9:57:35 GMT -7
You accuse us of “smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking” and then whine that we’re making your post seem worse than it is. At least you admit it was bad. I don’t remember anyone asking you to buy into anything? I thought your opinion was voluntary. I then gave the Justin Schultz example. WE rushed him, we expected too much from him. He was a long shot to make it back and he managed to...
How many players have we said would be good? Bouch is a top 10 pick and with time he should be a top 4 D. He needs to work on his foot speed and I still see him flat footed or floating at times. Until Bouch plays and proves himself in the NHL it's all smoke and mirrors. Even Bear had a good season last year but there is such a thing as the sophomore slump. Would like to see his progress continue not regress. We are all fans and on the same team here. Relax
Your second response was definitely more measured Windsor and has some merit worth discussing, and you did wake up the sleepy pro-board so its all good:-). I think we all agree some very bad decisions were made in the justin schultz era of oilers and a few years before that, but I'd like to think we've moved on from an organisational POV from the dark days of RWS and B.o.B club. KH has a rep for "over-ripening" prospects and even chiapet showed some patience, although i do think JP was rushed and mishandled but under the circumstances, I think several teams may have made that mistake and tried to get JP in line up right away given his hype. As for Bouchard, he is definitely in the "maybe" category and I think most on here realise that, but are also hoping for the best and encouraged that he looks to be still improving (inc myself). Theres also a chance he becomes another Rheinhart but lets hope not. For me, Broberg is the "Can't miss" prospect, he has the speed, size and intelligence and I'll be shocked if he doesn't get some games in even though KH has said he'll likely keep him in sweden until their season ends. speed is the new kink in NHL (not size) and imo you're right Bouch def needs to improve in that category.
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Post by oildude on Nov 12, 2020 12:08:04 GMT -7
I then gave the Justin Schultz example. WE rushed him, we expected too much from him. He was a long shot to make it back and he managed to...
How many players have we said would be good? Bouch is a top 10 pick and with time he should be a top 4 D. He needs to work on his foot speed and I still see him flat footed or floating at times. Until Bouch plays and proves himself in the NHL it's all smoke and mirrors. Even Bear had a good season last year but there is such a thing as the sophomore slump. Would like to see his progress continue not regress. We are all fans and on the same team here. Relax
Your second response was definitely more measured Windsor and has some merit worth discussing, and you did wake up the sleepy pro-board so its all good:-). I think we all agree some very bad decisions were made in the justin schultz era of oilers and a few years before that, but I'd like to think we've moved on from an organisational POV from the dark days of RWS and B.o.B club. KH has a rep for "over-ripening" prospects and even chiapet showed some patience, although i do think JP was rushed and mishandled but under the circumstances, I think several teams may have made that mistake and tried to get JP in line up right away given his hype. As for Bouchard, he is definitely in the "maybe" category and I think most on here realise that, but are also hoping for the best and encouraged that he looks to be still improving (inc myself). Theres also a chance he becomes another Rheinhart but lets hope not. For me, Broberg is the "Can't miss" prospect, he has the speed, size and intelligence and I'll be shocked if he doesn't get some games in even though KH has said he'll likely keep him in sweden until their season ends. speed is the new kink in NHL (not size) and imo you're right Bouch def needs to improve in that category. I actually think they are both wrong....and right at the same time. Justin Schultz was rushed, and was given his spot, no argument. Bouchard is being developed. We will see if this is the right type of development for him. There is no right answer to player development.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Nov 12, 2020 12:47:31 GMT -7
Your second response was definitely more measured Windsor and has some merit worth discussing, and you did wake up the sleepy pro-board so its all good:-). I think we all agree some very bad decisions were made in the justin schultz era of oilers and a few years before that, but I'd like to think we've moved on from an organisational POV from the dark days of RWS and B.o.B club. KH has a rep for "over-ripening" prospects and even chiapet showed some patience, although i do think JP was rushed and mishandled but under the circumstances, I think several teams may have made that mistake and tried to get JP in line up right away given his hype. As for Bouchard, he is definitely in the "maybe" category and I think most on here realise that, but are also hoping for the best and encouraged that he looks to be still improving (inc myself). Theres also a chance he becomes another Rheinhart but lets hope not. For me, Broberg is the "Can't miss" prospect, he has the speed, size and intelligence and I'll be shocked if he doesn't get some games in even though KH has said he'll likely keep him in sweden until their season ends. speed is the new kink in NHL (not size) and imo you're right Bouch def needs to improve in that category. I actually think they are both wrong....and right at the same time. Justin Schultz was rushed, and was given his spot, no argument. Bouchard is being developed. We will see if this is the right type of development for him. There is no right answer to player development. Schultz wasn’t rushed, he was just given a spot he shouldn’t have had (he had 4 university seasons, and half an AHL season before seeing NHL time). If he started off with say third pairing even strength minutes and 2PP units, I think he would have been fine. But Craig MacTavish guaranteed him top 4 minutes. |
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Post by SuperDave17 on Nov 12, 2020 13:00:57 GMT -7
I do think we ALL, fans on the boards and old boys club management alike, misread what we had in Schultz. Schultz was never top pairing material who could do any lifting in his own zone. His game needed a team with experienced high-powered offence to put him in situations where his skill set could succeed, while covering his deficiencies to the extent that it's possible. That's why the Pens were as close a fit for him as could possibly be, at least for a while.
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Post by Bronco73 on Nov 12, 2020 15:54:32 GMT -7
I think Schultz is exactly what we thought he was. A good college or even AHL player that can't handle the NHL. he's proving it in Pittsburgh where he REALLY should be benefitting from his linemates and he just isn't. In fact other than one year in Pittsburgh his best production was in Edmonton.  |
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Post by fogolin2 on Nov 12, 2020 17:41:30 GMT -7
I do think we ALL, fans on the boards and old boys club management alike, misread what we had in Schultz. Schultz was never top pairing material who could do any lifting in his own zone. His game needed a team with experienced high-powered offence to put him in situations where his skill set could succeed, while covering his deficiencies to the extent that it's possible. That's why the Pens were as close a fit for him as could possibly be, at least for a while. Getting a 2nd for him was a great deal. He was useless to us. Some teams can have a dman that can't play d. Glad the Penguins paid him 16mil, and the Oilers didn't.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Nov 12, 2020 17:57:30 GMT -7
I think Schultz is exactly what we thought he was. A good college or even AHL player that can't handle the NHL. he's proving it in Pittsburgh where he REALLY should be benefitting from his linemates and he just isn't. In fact other than one year in Pittsburgh his best production was in Edmonton. At the time of his signing no Oiler fan thought he was just a good College/AHL player that couldn’t handle the NHL. |
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Post by windsoroiler on Nov 12, 2020 22:56:58 GMT -7
Great discussion. It is driving me nuts to see Hughes jump right in while we have to wait for Bouch, Broberg, etc to develop. We hope Bouch becomes a top 4, Hughes is already a top pairing D. What a difference it makes to a team. I'm jealous and I cannot lie about it... Add Makar and the D in Dallas as well.
We have not had a true top pairing #1 since Prongs. Getting it done by committee. Barrie will give us a dimension offensively we have not had in a long time and can teach the young guys. Hard to develop some of our talent on D without such a defenseman to learn from.
Let's hope Jones and Bear can handle the defensive side of things. Nurse needs to earn his pay, I see Montour signed at 3.8 mil, Nurse makes almost 2 million more. Ryan Pullock is quite a bit better than Nurse and is signed for 5 mil. Nurse needs to be way better than he has been... Let's hope Larsson's back is fine now and that Russell stays healthy being a smaller body that takes a beating. We have lots of if's on defense... Lag is looking pretty good, but once again smoke and mirrors since he has not played enough NHL minutes.
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Post by drtaf on Nov 13, 2020 10:16:44 GMT -7
I think Schultz is exactly what we thought he was. A good college or even AHL player that can't handle the NHL. he's proving it in Pittsburgh where he REALLY should be benefitting from his linemates and he just isn't. In fact other than one year in Pittsburgh his best production was in Edmonton. At the time of his signing no Oiler fan thought he was just a good College/AHL player that couldn’t handle the NHL. There was a lot of dilusional talk about the "young guns" tearing up the NHL with Schultz being the next "Norris" but this was fuelled by the Org's spin doctors and lapdogs and we drank up the Koolaid (inc me), mostly because we had been starved of anything like a decent hockey team to cheer for so long. Painful memories, that's why so many on this board are still gun-shy of getting out the pom poms!
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Nov 13, 2020 10:24:40 GMT -7
At the time of his signing no Oiler fan thought he was just a good College/AHL player that couldn’t handle the NHL. There was a lot of dilusional talk about the "young guns" tearing up the NHL with Schultz being the next "Norris" but this was fuelled by the Org's spin doctors and lapdogs and we drank up the Koolaid (inc me), mostly because we had been starved of anything like a decent hockey team to cheer for so long. Painful memories, that's why so many on this board are still gun-shy of getting out the pom poms! I thought he was gonna be good because there was a bidding war for him. He would’ve been good if he was handled better. I stated earlier, if he was given 3rd pairing minutes and maybe 2PP minutes instead of top 4 and 1PP, I think he would have turned out better.
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