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Post by oilyfan on Feb 10, 2022 9:00:48 GMT -7
According to Dredger - about fricken time
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Post by fogolin2 on Feb 10, 2022 9:11:50 GMT -7
Cannot believe he started Smith last night. I wish Tippett would take Smith with him.
I think it's too late, but we'll see.
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Post by igibb on Feb 10, 2022 9:14:44 GMT -7
Sportsnet confirmed it. Woodcroft taking over.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 10, 2022 10:10:31 GMT -7
Cannot believe he started Smith last night. I wish Tippett would take Smith with him. I think it's too late, but we'll see. It was old school thinking, Smitty's a grizzled old vet and I'm not surprised he told Tipp to put him in so he can prove he still has it. However, It's the coach's job to manage player's time and expectations and dictate who starts and this was obviously a bad move. Personally, I hope Smitty sees this as his fault, listens to Woody, gets back in real game shape and comes out guns blazing in time for playoffs. It may also be an insight into Tipp's mentality? Smitty says I want in and Tipp says ok. Wonder if McDrai are saying "Put me over the boards coach, I can win this" and Tipp says ok, despite knowing they've already played too much ice time. Tipp is loyal, I'll give him that. I wish him the best in his future endeavors, but i dont see him as a full time NHL coach anywhere anymore?
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Post by yuke on Feb 10, 2022 10:17:30 GMT -7
I wonder if Manson is coming to replace Playfair
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Post by windsoroiler on Feb 10, 2022 10:22:03 GMT -7
I wonder if Manson is coming to replace Playfair Yes he is. Tip is a good coach for weaker teams, like Maurice to take the next step that's not his strong suit. Barrie has been terible past couple games but I will add that our 9 mil dollar D in Nurse is back to his old self. Use your skills and reach and physical play, which has made you successful rather than laying down, taking a knee, not doing anything, plain getting beat. Coach can help but can't be doing this stuff as a #1D.
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Post by pillotte on Feb 10, 2022 10:27:25 GMT -7
As you know drtaf I was a supporter of Tippett until a couple of months ago when I started to see things that I as an unexperienced coach could not figure out why. Things such as line combinations that for every game were different players. Then when the game started everything went into the blender. As a player from time gone by, you get to know your linemates , their tendencies in certain situations and you read off of that. At least that will bring consistency to the line. But with changing daily and during games these guys must have been going nuts trying to figure out who am I playing with next game let alone next shift. The systems being used both defensive zone neutral and into the offence have allowing the opposition to literally do what they wanted. There has been very little physical play from players such as Kassian, Nurse and others that should be hammering people. Other than Yammer, Benson who hits to hurt. It's unfortunate but Tipp had to go. I guess my question is - Woodcroft or do you think that's only temporary? I think it's a message from above, maybe even as high as Katz " this sh-t has to stop now before we flush another season". Sorry Tipp I wish you all the best, but it was time to go.
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Post by oilyfan on Feb 10, 2022 10:41:19 GMT -7
As you know drtaf I was a supporter of Tippett until a couple of months ago when I started to see things that I as an unexperienced coach could not figure out why. Things such as line combinations that for every game were different players. Then when the game started everything went into the blender. As a player from time gone by, you get to know your linemates , their tendencies in certain situations and you read off of that. At least that will bring consistency to the line. But with changing daily and during games these guys must have been going nuts trying to figure out who am I playing with next game let alone next shift. The systems being used both defensive zone neutral and into the offence have allowing the opposition to literally do what they wanted. There has been very little physical play from players such as Kassian, Nurse and others that should be hammering people. Other than Yammer, Benson who hits to hurt. It's unfortunate but Tipp had to go. I guess my question is - Woodcroft or do you think that's only temporary? I think it's a message from above, maybe even as high as Katz " this sh-t has to stop now before we flush another season". Sorry Tipp I wish you all the best, but it was time to go. Tipp 'was' a good coach. He was a consultant in Seattle when we hired him, not hired there as coach (though maybe that was going to happen??). I was with you, and asked for that before he was hired. However, obviously the game past him by. In this case, from what I see, it's definitely a case of the inmates running the asylum. He's known as a players coach. The Wpg Jets had a coach who 'almost' beat the Oilers one year. Up three games to one but then we lost it. His name was Bob Murdoch. His fault was he was a true 'communist'. By that I mean, all 18 skaters, and the goalies, got equal playing time. Even in the playoffs, excluding PP and PK. Bob Essensa (remember him he was an Oiler briefly too) was clearly playing better, but he continually rotated Beauregard and Essensa in that series and and it was Beaus turn in game 7. ALL the Jets fans were screaming for Essensa but he put Beau in, and Beau lost. Cost Murdoch his job the next season. Tippet was similar but loyal to 'his' players. His in quotes because if Koskinen had asked Tipp instead of Smith there's no way Kos would have started last night. I'm glad he's gone. It's painfully obvious that this team is in total disarray and has been for awhile, save that 6 game point streak. I personally felt Tipp should have been fired after the Ottawa loss at home when we were up 3 to 1 heading into the 3rd and Ottawa is the worst 3rd period team in the league, even worse than Montreal. Yet they score FIVE 3rd period goals to beat us. FIVE. Worst team. That IMO should have been the final nail in the coffin. Tipp refused to call time outs, he would rather play leon/mcd to death to 'solve' things while the rest of the team would sit on the bench. I'm not sad he's gone, he deserves it. And he has more money than you and I will ever have. He doesn't need to work. He can retire and do whatever he wants until the day he dies. If he gets another job its because he wants one, not because he needs one. I'm not fan of the rhetoric I'm listening too right now when they say "it's a not a good thing he was canned". Yes, yes it was. Took too long but it was. Now, our roster is still flawed, but lets see what Jay can do with it. #Skinner no.1 goalie now
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Post by windsoroiler on Feb 10, 2022 10:51:40 GMT -7
Our roster is still flawed and we can call up players like Griffith, Cracknell (who is on the Olympic squad), Malone, maybe Marody and later Hollaway. On D I would like to see Neimo back. All the fringe NHL players on the roster, wouldn't hurt to have the other guys around. My take and has been said before.
At worst our fringe players will get an extra kick in the butt. We are not playing as a team, our bottom 6 has been under performing and now it is moving up to our top players. My opinion. Coach aside
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Post by drtaf on Feb 10, 2022 10:53:02 GMT -7
As you know drtaf I was a supporter of Tippett until a couple of months ago when I started to see things that I as an unexperienced coach could not figure out why. Things such as line combinations that for every game were different players. Then when the game started everything went into the blender. As a player from time gone by, you get to know your linemates , their tendencies in certain situations and you read off of that. At least that will bring consistency to the line. But with changing daily and during games these guys must have been going nuts trying to figure out who am I playing with next game let alone next shift. The systems being used both defensive zone neutral and into the offence have allowing the opposition to literally do what they wanted. There has been very little physical play from players such as Kassian, Nurse and others that should be hammering people. Other than Yammer, Benson who hits to hurt. It's unfortunate but Tipp had to go. I guess my question is - Woodcroft or do you think that's only temporary? I think it's a message from above, maybe even as high as Katz " this sh-t has to stop now before we flush another season". Sorry Tipp I wish you all the best, but it was time to go. TBH Pillotte, I have no idea if Woody is the guy to get this team playing as a team again? He's certainly smart and coach's a great system down in the A, but will that translate to the NHL and telling superstars what to do and managing their ice time properly? Eakins was a hot shot A coach and got destroyed up here. However, i think Eakins came in too arrogant (he admits that too) and his biggest challenge was managing Hall (who himself was too immature and arrogant). I dont see those traits in Woody and i dont think our "stars" are too arrogant or immature, they just want to win badly! If they can all get on the same page, this team has enough talent to get into the playoffs and even past 1st round. The next 40 games will dictate a lot of things. I'm guessing McD and Drai will buy in for at least that long just to see if the fortunes change? McD's post chi game quote was very telling. I dont have the exact quote but he said something along the lines that they were running around like headless chickens with no direction. I think are dynamic duo are actually looking for some leadership and direction from the coaches and i hope woody can provide it. Tipp's idea of coaching was to throw them out there and do their thing. That kind of worked for a time, especially on the PP, but other teams figured out how to contain them and Tipp didn't have a plan to counteract and they've gotten stymied and frustrated. I'm really hoping Woody does have a plan and with Manson joining him, I'm hoping nurse finds his "inner Manson" and so do a few others. If you're old enough to remember how Manson played, You'll know what I mean. GO OILERS!!!
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Post by AlwaysOil on Feb 10, 2022 11:06:11 GMT -7
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Post by yuke on Feb 10, 2022 11:29:46 GMT -7
I guess that is what you would call ' losing the room. Team tuned him out. Coaches have a shelf life, some longer than others. |
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Post by AlwaysOil on Feb 10, 2022 11:39:21 GMT -7
As you know drtaf I was a supporter of Tippett until a couple of months ago when I started to see things that I as an unexperienced coach could not figure out why. Things such as line combinations that for every game were different players. Then when the game started everything went into the blender. As a player from time gone by, you get to know your linemates , their tendencies in certain situations and you read off of that. At least that will bring consistency to the line. But with changing daily and during games these guys must have been going nuts trying to figure out who am I playing with next game let alone next shift. The systems being used both defensive zone neutral and into the offence have allowing the opposition to literally do what they wanted. There has been very little physical play from players such as Kassian, Nurse and others that should be hammering people. Other than Yammer, Benson who hits to hurt. It's unfortunate but Tipp had to go. I guess my question is - Woodcroft or do you think that's only temporary? I think it's a message from above, maybe even as high as Katz " this sh-t has to stop now before we flush another season". Sorry Tipp I wish you all the best, but it was time to go. TBH Pillotte, I have no idea if Woody is the guy to get this team playing as a team again? He's certainly smart and coach's a great system down in the A, but will that translate to the NHL and telling superstars what to do and managing their ice time properly? Eakins was a hot shot A coach and got destroyed up here. However, i think Eakins came in too arrogant (he admits that too) and his biggest challenge was managing Hall (who himself was too immature and arrogant). I dont see those traits in Woody and i dont think our "stars" are too arrogant or immature, they just want to win badly! If they can all get on the same page, this team has enough talent to get into the playoffs and even past 1st round. The next 40 games will dictate a lot of things. I'm guessing McD and Drai will buy in for at least that long just to see if the fortunes change? McD's post chi game quote was very telling. I dont have the exact quote but he said something along the lines that they were running around like headless chickens with no direction. I think are dynamic duo are actually looking for some leadership and direction from the coaches and i hope woody can provide it. Tipp's idea of coaching was to throw them out there and do their thing. That kind of worked for a time, especially on the PP, but other teams figured out how to contain them and Tipp didn't have a plan to counteract and they've gotten stymied and frustrated. I'm really hoping Woody does have a plan and with Manson joining him, I'm hoping nurse finds his "inner Manson" and so do a few others. If you're old enough to remember how Manson played, You'll know what I mean. GO OILERS!!! 100%. Darnell has that bad habit of backing up till he’s in the crease. Use your speed and lay a hit on that forward at their blue line.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 10, 2022 12:16:54 GMT -7
I guess that is what you would call ' losing the room. Team tuned him out. Coaches have a shelf life, some longer than others. Yep, there's a narrative out there that we "burn through" coaches but truth is so do most teams. Very few coaches last longer than 3years unless they're very successful and tipp wasn't, so we've done what most teams do which is try a new voice. Gm's last longer and usually get to fire 2-3 coaches but then they too get fired unless the team has success?. We've had very little success since 1990, but one miracle run in 2006 has led a certain you know who to think they know what it takes and unfortunately the owner believes him and i'm guessing still defers to "his better judgement" and/or the judgement of others from the glorious past. No conspiracy theory here, just an acknowledgement that this organisation tends to still cling to the past and think they can somehow recreate it in the present? At some point we have to tear that down and go with a completely different approach. Throw out the old windows XP PC's and start using smart phones, tablets and analytics and find the people who are leading the next gen game, not the past oilers run and gun system that no longer is relevent in today's NHL. I'm really hoping Woody is the start of a change in org attitude, but I've been burned before, as always, time will tell if this is a new beginning or just another re-run of the past several decades.
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Post by igibb on Feb 10, 2022 13:19:45 GMT -7
As you know drtaf I was a supporter of Tippett until a couple of months ago when I started to see things that I as an unexperienced coach could not figure out why. Things such as line combinations that for every game were different players. Then when the game started everything went into the blender. As a player from time gone by, you get to know your linemates , their tendencies in certain situations and you read off of that. At least that will bring consistency to the line. But with changing daily and during games these guys must have been going nuts trying to figure out who am I playing with next game let alone next shift. The systems being used both defensive zone neutral and into the offence have allowing the opposition to literally do what they wanted. There has been very little physical play from players such as Kassian, Nurse and others that should be hammering people. Other than Yammer, Benson who hits to hurt. It's unfortunate but Tipp had to go. I guess my question is - Woodcroft or do you think that's only temporary? I think it's a message from above, maybe even as high as Katz " this sh-t has to stop now before we flush another season". Sorry Tipp I wish you all the best, but it was time to go. Tipp's idea of coaching was to throw them out there and do their thing. That kind of worked for a time, especially on the PP, but other teams figured out how to contain them and Tipp didn't have a plan to counteract and they've gotten stymied and frustrated. So you think for 2 seasons and 20+ odd games this year the Oilers had the most dominant PP in the league because the players were just doing what they wanted and finally after all that time every team in the league magically figured out how to stymie them. Yeah sounds very believable.
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onebit
Oilers Roster
Posts: 291
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Post by onebit on Feb 10, 2022 14:05:44 GMT -7
Well, if you've heard me rant about Tippett (and who hasn't?) you know I'm a happy man today. That said, Holland is not without blame either. He's the one that re-signed Smith for 2 years, took on Keith's full contract and brought Barrie back when we needed a replacement for Larsson.
From where I sit, it's now Woodcroft's turn to try and put lipstick on the pig. I sincerely hope he can find a way. If he can at least get them to start games at the same time as our opponents do, this season might still be salvaged.
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Post by pillotte on Feb 10, 2022 14:25:51 GMT -7
Tipp's idea of coaching was to throw them out there and do their thing. That kind of worked for a time, especially on the PP, but other teams figured out how to contain them and Tipp didn't have a plan to counteract and they've gotten stymied and frustrated. So you think for 2 seasons and 20+ odd games this year the Oilers had the most dominant PP in the league because the players were just doing what they wanted and finally after all that time every team in the league magically figured out how to stymie them. Yeah sounds very believable. PP are a different animal from a 5on5 as you know. A power play relies more on the players talent rather than a system. One of the main reasons we were so successful earlier on was our talent on the PP and their ability to change positions rapidly. However once players become stagnant and don't move it becomes easier for the PK to stop. A PK will use 1 of 2 systems to defend against a PP ( Box or Diamond) each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The objective of the PP is to create a 2 on 1 somewhere, usually down low which will leave a player open to shoot. However if the PP becomes stagnant and doesn't move the only thing it can do is to move around the outside, which makes it way easier to defend against. As of late our D wait to long to shoot which allows the PK to get into the lanes. If you remember when we were so successful nobody held the puck longer than a second once they were open and the shot was there. Once taken, converge on the net for loose pucks. By moving the puck quickly it will eventually break a PK down.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 10, 2022 16:01:16 GMT -7
So you think for 2 seasons and 20+ odd games this year the Oilers had the most dominant PP in the league because the players were just doing what they wanted and finally after all that time every team in the league magically figured out how to stymie them. Yeah sounds very believable. PP are a different animal from a 5on5 as you know. A power play relies more on the players talent rather than a system. One of the main reasons we were so successful earlier on was our talent on the PP and their ability to change positions rapidly. However once players become stagnant and don't move it becomes easier for the PK to stop. A PK will use 1 of 2 systems to defend against a PP ( Box or Diamond) each have their own strengths and weaknesses. The objective of the PP is to create a 2 on 1 somewhere, usually down low which will leave a player open to shoot. However if the PP becomes stagnant and doesn't move the only thing it can do is to move around the outside, which makes it way easier to defend against. As of late our D wait to long to shoot which allows the PK to get into the lanes. If you remember when we were so successful nobody held the puck longer than a second once they were open and the shot was there. Once taken, converge on the net for loose pucks. By moving the puck quickly it will eventually break a PK down. good explanation Pillotte. I'd add that a lot of things have led to the decline of our PP including; confidence or lack thereof? injuries; at various times we've missed nuge and Barrie and as Pillotte says above, we became predictable and teams adapted and we didn't. \ i also think Gulu was in charge of PP/PK and he was the one coach they kept so maybe they think it was something to do with him as well and I am happy they did keep him because he does have some head coach NHL experience and Woody may need someone like that in his corner. i'm looking forward to a more balanced PP with 2 proper units headmanned by both Bouch and Barrie, since having 2 options is inherently harder to coach against than the 1 option we currently have now
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Post by neufab94 on Feb 10, 2022 19:32:06 GMT -7
I am sure Tippet will be just fine and who knows, maybe he finds himself in Seattle. I appreciate that for a couple of years he helped make the Oilers better. That said, I think the sweep vs the Jets last playoffs is a precursor to the last 20 or so games. The departure could have come earlier. The article has a few interesting points and on the surface fairly well put together. However there are a few things that could be easily picked apart. Doing so doesn't help much so instead I offer the following: Recognizing that the roster is what it is I hope that Woodcroft can maximize the potential of the team and implement some changes. The defense needs to continue to shoot the puck however a net drive is required for point shots to have more value. Without screening or pressure the chances of generating rebounds drop drastically. The defense may not get credit for a shot or goal that is deflected but nonetheless the point shots need to continue but the timing needs to be more thoughtful. Without Keith the pairings will be interesting. I propose Nurse and Ceci for the top pair as a more stable veteran duo while Keith is out. Barrie needs to play with the faster of the call ups and be allowed to roam a bit and get back his offensive touch. I am impressed with Bouchard in spite of some expected lapses common with young defenseman and hope that he starts to use his size more. Everyone needs to up their physical game. Stable line combinations are important to establish chemistry. No more blender. Pirlini was playing well and out performed others that have been gifted a bottom 6 spot. The Oilers have the players to make up a solid top 6, a grinding 4th line, and a 3rd line with more potential than seen in Edmonton for a long time. Woodcroft needs to drive home the importance of creating chaos in front of the net, finishing checks, and regular shift lengths. Also, the time is long overdue and the Oilers need to have 2 PP units where the names differ from the first unit. While the defense needs to continue to shoot the puck, the forwards need to shoot more, attack the center of the ice and crash the net. A shot for a rebound still has a better chance of going in than a cute little blocked pass. Welcome Woodcroft and Manson, GO Oilers!
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Post by FloridaAltFan on Feb 10, 2022 19:47:47 GMT -7
This move had to come before the trade deadline, I predicted it might happen. Next coach will have a hand in shaping the direction of the club and have input on any incoming trades. It'll be interesting to see who is hired.
Update: Jay Woodcroft is hired as replacement. I don't know much about him..
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