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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 20:06:51 GMT -7
Nurse should be playing 19-22 minutes making 3.5M per year. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Yeah but that's not the going rate. He's at 5.6M right now, and if he was the 20 Minute 2nd pairing guy, he'd be about right - a bit on the heavy side of a contract but something you could live with. I also agree he shouldn't be making more than Klef, but that was a real sweet deal that Chia did with him. I still remember thinking what a bargain that was when he first signed it, nevermind now that he is undoubtedly our #1 dman. I'm pretty sure we'll trade him in the off season (Nurse) IF Klef is set to return. Nurse will want more than 5.6 on a longer term deal, and if he got it, then Klef would be in line for an even bigger bump. Both would then be severely overpaid as even though Klef is our #1 guy, he's not anywhere near a Hedman. Klef may or may not ask for a big raise. For sure a raise, but I don’t see him asking for more than 6ish. Which I would be fine with. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 29, 2021 20:18:41 GMT -7
Yeah but that's not the going rate. He's at 5.6M right now, and if he was the 20 Minute 2nd pairing guy, he'd be about right - a bit on the heavy side of a contract but something you could live with. I also agree he shouldn't be making more than Klef, but that was a real sweet deal that Chia did with him. I still remember thinking what a bargain that was when he first signed it, nevermind now that he is undoubtedly our #1 dman. I'm pretty sure we'll trade him in the off season (Nurse) IF Klef is set to return. Nurse will want more than 5.6 on a longer term deal, and if he got it, then Klef would be in line for an even bigger bump. Both would then be severely overpaid as even though Klef is our #1 guy, he's not anywhere near a Hedman. Klef may or may not ask for a big raise. For sure a raise, but I don’t see him asking for more than 6ish. Which I would be fine with. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I wouldn't. the guy calls in sick for 1/4 of the time.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 20:20:02 GMT -7
Klef may or may not ask for a big raise. For sure a raise, but I don’t see him asking for more than 6ish. Which I would be fine with. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I wouldn't. the guy calls in sick for 1/4 of the time. Yeah but that 3/4 he does play puts our team much higher in the standings lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 29, 2021 20:28:42 GMT -7
I wouldn't. the guy calls in sick for 1/4 of the time. Yeah but that 3/4 he does play puts our team much higher in the standings lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Actually he hasn't but that's beside the point. He's a good defenseman, but even on our team which has the worst defense in the league and has been that way since Pronger left, he hasn't been our best defender until probably last year. On a team with an actual GOOD defense, he barely cracks the top 6. That isn't a 6 million dollar paycheck IMO. This is part of why this team has sucked rocks so badly for 30 years is overpaying for mediocre talent.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 20:32:16 GMT -7
Yeah but that 3/4 he does play puts our team much higher in the standings lol. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Actually he hasn't but that's beside the point. He's a good defenseman, but even on our team which has the worst defense in the league and has been that way since Pronger left, he hasn't been our best defender until probably last year. On a team with an actual GOOD defense, he barely cracks the top 6. That isn't a 6 million dollar paycheck IMO. This is part of why this team has sucked rocks so badly for 30 years is overpaying for mediocre talent. The record with Klef in and out of the lineup speaks for itself. Someone else posted the record last week or something, it’s a pretty big difference. I think Klef is second pairing on most teams. You’re talking about him like people were talking about Petry before he was traded. Barely cracking a top 6? That’s a bit much. And I think a lot of GMs and coaches would disagree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 29, 2021 20:57:11 GMT -7
Actually he hasn't but that's beside the point. He's a good defenseman, but even on our team which has the worst defense in the league and has been that way since Pronger left, he hasn't been our best defender until probably last year. On a team with an actual GOOD defense, he barely cracks the top 6. That isn't a 6 million dollar paycheck IMO. This is part of why this team has sucked rocks so badly for 30 years is overpaying for mediocre talent. The record with Klef in and out of the lineup speaks for itself. Someone else posted the record last week or something, it’s a pretty big difference. I think Klef is second pairing on most teams. You’re talking about him like people were talking about Petry before he was traded. Barely cracking a top 6? That’s a bit much. And I think a lot of GMs and coaches would disagree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2013/14 28'th 2014/15 28'th 2015/16 29'th 2016/17 8'th 2017/18 23'd 2018/19 25'th 2019/20 12'th The only time we saw this team climb the standings was after 2015/16 when McDavid and Draisaitl arrived. Klefbom has had little to no effect. Again though that's not the point. He's good, yes. He's not 6 million a year good. Being the best on a VERY bad defense just is not an excuse to overpay him. A 6 million dollar contract makes him the 20'th highest paid defenseman in the league. We drastically overpaid Nurse and it's biting us in the Fogolin2, overpaying Klefbom would amplify it even worse. I'm done with paying for mediocrity on this team. Klefbom doesn't make the team a contender, he helps them barely tread water. Again, yes he's good, but he's no game changer. There isn't a team in this league that would leap at their phones and start a bidding war to get him to lead their defense, in fact none of them would even be bothered to acquire him as a first pairing D. on most teams he's a second or even third pairing D. You don't pay 6 a year for that.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 21:03:29 GMT -7
The record with Klef in and out of the lineup speaks for itself. Someone else posted the record last week or something, it’s a pretty big difference. I think Klef is second pairing on most teams. You’re talking about him like people were talking about Petry before he was traded. Barely cracking a top 6? That’s a bit much. And I think a lot of GMs and coaches would disagree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2013/14 28'th 2014/15 28'th 2015/16 29'th 2016/17 8'th 2017/18 23'd 2018/19 25'th 2019/20 12'th The only time we saw this team climb the standings was after 2015/16 when McDavid and Draisaitl arrived. Klefbom has had little to no effect. Again though that's not the point. He's good, yes. He's not 6 million a year good. Being the best on a VERY bad defense just is not an excuse to overpay him. A 6 million dollar contract makes him the 20'th highest paid defenseman in the league. We drastically overpaid Nurse and it's biting us in the Fogolin2, overpaying Klefbom would amplify it even worse. I'm done with paying for mediocrity on this team. Klefbom doesn't make the team a contender, he helps them barely tread water. Again, yes he's good, but he's no game changer. There isn't a team in this league that would leap at their phones and start a bidding war to get him to lead their defense, in fact none of them would even be bothered to acquire him as a first pairing D. on most teams he's a second or even third pairing D. You don't pay 6 a year for that. When you’re Edmonton and have to overpay most players to come here or stay here.... the price comes to at least close to that. The record with and without Klefbom in the lineup was something like a 60ish point pace with him out and 90some with him in. I know he’s not a legit top pairing Dman, but he’s definitely NOT a bottom pairing guy. He’s a solid second pairing Dman that can play top end minutes if need be. The simple fact is, if we were to replace him with another 28+ min a night Dman, we would have to pay much MORE than 6M. Definitely more. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 29, 2021 21:11:17 GMT -7
not true.. there are literally only 20 D-men in this league making more than 6 m The ones making exactly 6 are Dougie Hamilton, Erik Johnson, Shea Weber and Aaron Ekblad. Klefbom doesn't hold a candle to them. IF Klefbom demands 6 million, then I'd trade him. We have some pretty good defenders brewing in the AHL. Move him for another D with similar talents, because they certainly won't be demanding 6 million dollars a year.
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Post by mrtea on Jan 29, 2021 21:24:54 GMT -7
The record with Klef in and out of the lineup speaks for itself. Someone else posted the record last week or something, it’s a pretty big difference. I think Klef is second pairing on most teams. You’re talking about him like people were talking about Petry before he was traded. Barely cracking a top 6? That’s a bit much. And I think a lot of GMs and coaches would disagree with you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2013/14 28'th 2014/15 28'th 2015/16 29'th 2016/17 8'th 2017/18 23'd 2018/19 25'th 2019/20 12'th The only time we saw this team climb the standings was after 2015/16 when McDavid and Draisaitl arrived. Klefbom has had little to no effect. Again though that's not the point. He's good, yes. He's not 6 million a year good. Being the best on a VERY bad defense just is not an excuse to overpay him. A 6 million dollar contract makes him the 20'th highest paid defenseman in the league. We drastically overpaid Nurse and it's biting us in the Fogolin2, overpaying Klefbom would amplify it even worse. I'm done with paying for mediocrity on this team. Klefbom doesn't make the team a contender, he helps them barely tread water. Again, yes he's good, but he's no game changer. There isn't a team in this league that would leap at their phones and start a bidding war to get him to lead their defense, in fact none of them would even be bothered to acquire him as a first pairing D. on most teams he's a second or even third pairing D. You don't pay 6 a year for that. I've got to agree with you Bronco, Klefbom is to defense what Koskinen is to goalies. Koskinen seems to have to give up at least 1 bad goal a game just like KJlefbom gets badly beaten defensively it seems once a period. KLefbom has driven me crazy for years the way he can be playing a great game and then he commits some boneheaded play leaving the opposition a clear path to our goalie. Klefbom also seems to pinch too much at the wrong times getting beat and with his experience he should know better by now. His saving grace is that he was putting up a few more points lately, but that is only when he guesses right while he takes those risky pinches. I used to have hope that Klefbom would eventually put it together, but if he was going to turn into a top defender he would have done it by now. Klefbom was the Oilers #1D by default.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 21:28:14 GMT -7
not true.. there are literally only 20 D-men in this league making more than 6 m The ones making exactly 6 are Dougie Hamilton, Erik Johnson, Shea Weber and Aaron Ekblad. Klefbom doesn't hold a candle to them. IF Klefbom demands 6 million, then I'd trade him. We have some pretty good defenders brewing in the AHL. Move him for another D with similar talents, because they certainly won't be demanding 6 million dollars a year. I don’t think he’ll demand 6. As for those players, you’re right. Klef doesn’t hold a candle to them. But Dougie is UFA after this season, a 5.75M cap hit. I highly doubt he’ll stay there. He’ll probably get 8. Shea Weber’s salary is 6, but his cap hit is almost 8. Ekblad makes 6, but his cap hit is 7.5. That’s what I’m talking about when I’m talking about pay, the cap hit. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 29, 2021 21:48:50 GMT -7
Well you did say you don't see him asking for MORE than 6ish and that you'd be fine with that. That led me to believe you think he will be asking for about 6, which I think is far too much. Klef may or may not ask for a big raise. For sure a raise, but I don’t see him asking for more than 6ish. Which I would be fine with.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 29, 2021 21:51:23 GMT -7
Well you did say you don't see him asking for MORE than 6ish and that you'd be fine with that. That led me to believe you think he will be asking for about 6, which I think is far too much. Klef may or may not ask for a big raise. For sure a raise, but I don’t see him asking for more than 6ish. Which I would be fine with. Asking is different than demanding lol. All players ask for more doesn’t meant they’ll get it. I just said I would be fine with 6. Which is based off how our team is with him on the team vs without. Anyway, we don’t even know if he’s ever gonna come back. And if he does, what condition he’ll be in. He may be fixed and play 82. He may be worse and play 40. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by fogolin2 on Jan 30, 2021 10:03:29 GMT -7
If Klefbom is a #3 on a team, that is a helluva defense.
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Post by drtaf on Jan 30, 2021 11:47:37 GMT -7
Not sure why anyone thinks klef could ask for $6M, especially within next 2yrs when cap is flat. I'd hate to see Klef go either via trade, Fa or retirement, he's been a horse for us, but his rich payday sailed on the same ship that Larsson's did a few years ago when they went from ok 1-2 pair holding down the fort, to being placeholders until Nurse takes the reigns and guides our upcoming stud D to the promised land. Granted that last scenario didn't/hasn't happened, but the first did and now neither of our swedes will ever get anything more than $1-2M contracts here or elsewhere. We have to move on sooner the better with another D-plan, preferably bringing in a useful mentor that can still play 1-2 pair and bring along Bouchard, Bear, broberg and samurkov and nurse can patrol the 2nd pair side for one of them while d-man X takes one of the B's under his wing. Caveat, I dont expect this to happen until KH has some cap space next year and teams juggle players for the expansion.
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 30, 2021 12:08:38 GMT -7
If Klefbom is a #3 on a team, that is a helluva defense. Exactly what makes him a top pairing D on any team but this one? Among league defensemen and since his joining the league in 2013 and him playing with the two highest scoring players in the league for most of it he only ranks 68'th in goals scored and 59'th in Assists, and is a -64. Also among Defensemen he's 198'th overall in hits and 55'th in blocks. 47'th in takeaways and not only leads this team in giveaways at 307 but leads them also in missed shots at 370. Really the only positive thing that he leads this team in is eating up minutes... when he is not injured of course. Klefbom is a GOOD defenseman. He's not a great one, nor is he a reliable one frankly taking missed time, missed shots, giveaways etc into account. He's definitely not a REAL top 2 defender and would have trouble cracking the top four of SOME teams rosters.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 30, 2021 13:47:48 GMT -7
If Klefbom is a #3 on a team, that is a helluva defense. Exactly what makes him a top pairing D on any team but this one? Among league defensemen and since his joining the league in 2013 and him playing with the two highest scoring players in the league for most of it he only ranks 68'th in goals scored and 59'th in Assists, and is a -64. Also among Defensemen he's 198'th overall in hits and 55'th in blocks. 47'th in takeaways and not only leads this team in giveaways at 307 but leads them also in missed shots at 370. Really the only positive thing that he leads this team in is eating up minutes... when he is not injured of course. Klefbom is a GOOD defenseman. He's not a great one, nor is he a reliable one frankly taking missed time, missed shots, giveaways etc into account. He's definitely not a REAL top 2 defender and would have trouble cracking the top four of SOME teams rosters. Didn’t people say almost the exact same things about Petry before he was traded?
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Post by Bronco73 on Jan 30, 2021 15:18:12 GMT -7
Exactly what makes him a top pairing D on any team but this one? Among league defensemen and since his joining the league in 2013 and him playing with the two highest scoring players in the league for most of it he only ranks 68'th in goals scored and 59'th in Assists, and is a -64. Also among Defensemen he's 198'th overall in hits and 55'th in blocks. 47'th in takeaways and not only leads this team in giveaways at 307 but leads them also in missed shots at 370. Really the only positive thing that he leads this team in is eating up minutes... when he is not injured of course. Klefbom is a GOOD defenseman. He's not a great one, nor is he a reliable one frankly taking missed time, missed shots, giveaways etc into account. He's definitely not a REAL top 2 defender and would have trouble cracking the top four of SOME teams rosters. Didn’t people say almost the exact same things about Petry before he was traded? Ironically I didn't lol... I defended Petry with every fiber of my being and wanted us to keep. The thing about Petry though is we ONLY gave him 4 seasons before shipping him out. They just didn't know what he would become yet. Klef has had what, 9 now? He is where he will be IMO whereas Petry still had a boatload of maturing and improving to go. Klef COULD still get better, yes... I just am at the point where I don't think it will happen, and his vast and extensive injury history tells me that his days are numbered in this league anyways.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jan 30, 2021 15:22:43 GMT -7
Didn’t people say almost the exact same things about Petry before he was traded? Ironically I didn't lol... I defended Petry with every fiber of my being and wanted us to keep. The thing about Petry though is we ONLY gave him 4 seasons before shipping him out. They just didn't know what he would become yet. Klef has had what, 9 now? He is where he will be IMO whereas Petry still had a boatload of maturing and improving to go. Klef COULD still get better, yes... I just am at the point where I don't think it will happen, and his vast and extensive injury history tells me that his days are numbered in this league anyways. Klefbom’s rookie season was 2014-15. So last season was season 6. Petry’s rookie season was 2010-11, he got traded 2014-15 in his 5th season with us. Klef is 27 now, the same age Petry was when he was traded. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by igibb on Jan 30, 2021 15:34:53 GMT -7
I posted this is another thread. He would be a number 2 on 90% of the teams with a bonafide #1. The only thing that might push him to a 3# would be the fact he is a left shot.
Oilers record as of last Feb since 2015-16 comparing Klef in or out of the lineup. Kind of speaks for itself. The downside of him, of course, has been the amount of out of the lineup.
With: 149-121-26 (90 pt pace) Without: 32-47-10 (68 pt pace)
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Post by yuke on Jan 30, 2021 15:44:25 GMT -7
Thing with Klefbom is he is good at all situations. Not the best defender nor offensive defenseman. Just an all around player
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