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Post by yuke on Dec 19, 2021 9:37:49 GMT -7
We played an expansion team that showed no heart. Looks like they took the Oilers to lightly. I'd wait a few games before casting any judgment
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Post by windsoroiler on Dec 19, 2021 9:39:58 GMT -7
Really impressed with Skinner last night. Let in a bad one on the first shot of the game, but then settled right down and made important saves while the boys clawed back in to it. It was a great response from a young guy, when he could have folded. The reffing for both teams was atrocious. Just rewatching the first period and it is actually amazing the stuff they didn't call on both teams. Lots of depth guys made good impressions in that game. Benson's best game. Agreed. The glove save on the Kracken PP made up for it. Nice to see Foe double his goals totals in two games. Griffith played well, he is doing what Benson does and is not known as a physical player. He was key on the Sceviour goal. Nice to see McD get an assist on that goal, it must get tiring for McD to play will lesser players on a 3rd or 4th line shift and constantly not get rewarded. I bet that makes it fun for him to see the bottom 6 produce when he's on the ice for a shift. Sceviour looking good. Ryan looking better. Does anyone know the situation with Pulj? I mean if he has to quarantine for 10 days he will miss Christmas with his family for goodness sakes. Think it was last year too the team had to leave him behind in Boston (I think) over a false positive test. It's ridiculous. Poor Bison King.
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Post by windsoroiler on Dec 19, 2021 9:46:31 GMT -7
We played an expansion team that showed no heart. Looks like they took the Oilers to lightly. I'd wait a few games before casting any judgment I thought the Kraken played really hard. Oilers showed true work ethic to turn the tables for once. Maybe being short staffed is a blessing in disguise. We have been out shooting and keeping possession in the opposition zone past several games, even during the L streak. It's a good sign. Personally I would rather see this then winning games when we don't deserve to do so. When you have a PP clicking at 40-50% then our team just needs to rely on that to get the wins even when we don't deserve to win. Or playing 20 minutes out of a 60 minute game. It's been fun but as the games get tighter or the playoffs that's not how to win when it counts.
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Post by Bronco73 on Dec 19, 2021 10:26:20 GMT -7
We played an expansion team that showed no heart. Looks like they took the Oilers to lightly. I'd wait a few games before casting any judgment you must have watched a different game than I did, the Kraken took it to the Oilers all game long. They were intense, physical, and fast.
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Post by yuke on Dec 19, 2021 10:57:21 GMT -7
We played an expansion team that showed no heart. Looks like they took the Oilers to lightly. I'd wait a few games before casting any judgment you must have watched a different game than I did, the Kraken took it to the Oilers all game long. They were intense, physical, and fast. No, I watched the same game. The 3rd period when the Kraken got 3 shots?. There was little forechecking by them, breakouts seemed easier than usual. Was it our play or was it lack of zkraken play? We will know more after a couple games if we have it figured out.
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Post by fogolin2 on Dec 19, 2021 11:41:53 GMT -7
you must have watched a different game than I did, the Kraken took it to the Oilers all game long. They were intense, physical, and fast. No, I watched the same game. The 3rd period when the Kraken got 3 shots?. There was little forechecking by them, breakouts seemed easier than usual. Was it our play or was it lack of zkraken play? We will know more after a couple games if we have it figured out. They looked to me like a hard working team that lacks talent. Our callups and depth guys match their whole roster pretty well for talent, but I thought they played as Bronco described. At some point we were outshooting them 22-9 and the game was tied. It looked more even than the score, to my eye.
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Post by drtaf on Dec 19, 2021 15:11:01 GMT -7
Maybe time to give our team a tiny bit of credit. Reason Seattle only got 3 shots in 3rd was because the puck spent almost the whole 20 mins in their end. The kraken seemed willing but we never gave them much to work with
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Post by drtaf on Dec 19, 2021 15:12:55 GMT -7
And fwiw, coaching staff may have been forced to play bottom 6 guys a whole lot more than they wanted to and also place them in top 6, but they responded and played just the way we want them to so maybe we do need to give them a few more minutes and opportunities to prove themselves? Just saying?
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Post by sharptooth on Dec 20, 2021 12:13:15 GMT -7
And fwiw, coaching staff may have been forced to play bottom 6 guys a whole lot more than they wanted to and also place them in top 6, but they responded and played just the way we want them to so maybe we do need to give them a few more minutes and opportunities to prove themselves? Just saying? I agree and have been saying this for a while. Tipp burns out our top end guys by imo way overplaying them every single night. Once in a while fine but every single night is just too much. I could see how tired Drai looked this last while. Not as strong on the puck, weaker shot, slower skating etc. I do believe the overplaying is a big factor in that.
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Post by fogolin2 on Dec 20, 2021 13:34:50 GMT -7
And fwiw, coaching staff may have been forced to play bottom 6 guys a whole lot more than they wanted to and also place them in top 6, but they responded and played just the way we want them to so maybe we do need to give them a few more minutes and opportunities to prove themselves? Just saying? I heard a commentator (Spector?) saying this during the losing streak. It's a chicken-or-the-egg question. Tipp's not playing them because they're not producing, but how are they supposed to produce if they're hardly playing? I'm not sure what the right balance is, but I was quite impressed with the lesserknowns against Seattle. If they can play like that against better opponents, they deserve more minutes. It's gotta start somewhere, and it sucks that we're losing that momentum with this unplanned pause.
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Post by igibb on Dec 20, 2021 14:05:30 GMT -7
And fwiw, coaching staff may have been forced to play bottom 6 guys a whole lot more than they wanted to and also place them in top 6, but they responded and played just the way we want them to so maybe we do need to give them a few more minutes and opportunities to prove themselves? Just saying? I heard a commentator (Spector?) saying this during the losing streak. It's a chicken-or-the-egg question. Tipp's not playing them because they're not producing, but how are they supposed to produce if they're hardly playing? I'm not sure what the right balance is, but I was quite impressed with the lesserknowns against Seattle. If they can play like that against better opponents, they deserve more minutes. It's gotta start somewhere, and it sucks that we're losing that momentum with this unplanned pause. It's not a chicken and egg situation it a damned if you do damned if your don't situation. It's not that were not producing they were getting badly outscored. I put the stats up before the 3rd line started with 5 goals in their first 4 games and then proceeded to go -10 over the next 10 games. There were 3 games where they broke even in those 10 games and on 3 separate occasions they were -2. It's pretty hard to keep throwing out guys that are putting you 1 or 2 goals in the hole 70% of the time. So what do you do as a coach keep putting guys out there who put you down 2 goals because they can't compete and then double and triple shift the top players to make up those 2 goals or don't play them so you don't go down and double or triple shift the guys who are at least keeping their head above water? It a no win situation for the coach. The bottom 6 played themselves into the trouble they were in. They have looked much better against 2 weaker teams the question is can they do it against teams that are not in the bottom half of the league.
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onebit
Oilers Roster
Posts: 291
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Post by onebit on Dec 20, 2021 15:48:07 GMT -7
I heard a commentator (Spector?) saying this during the losing streak. It's a chicken-or-the-egg question. Tipp's not playing them because they're not producing, but how are they supposed to produce if they're hardly playing? I'm not sure what the right balance is, but I was quite impressed with the lesserknowns against Seattle. If they can play like that against better opponents, they deserve more minutes. It's gotta start somewhere, and it sucks that we're losing that momentum with this unplanned pause. It's not a chicken and egg situation it a damned if you do damned if your don't situation. It's not that were not producing they were getting badly outscored. I put the stats up before the 3rd line started with 5 goals in their first 4 games and then proceeded to go -10 over the next 10 games. There were 3 games where they broke even in those 10 games and on 3 separate occasions they were -2. It's pretty hard to keep throwing out guys that are putting you 1 or 2 goals in the hole 70% of the time. So what do you do as a coach keep putting guys out there who put you down 2 goals because they can't compete and then double and triple shift the top players to make up those 2 goals or don't play them so you don't go down and double or triple shift the guys who are at least keeping their head above water? It a no win situation for the coach. The bottom 6 played themselves into the trouble they were in. They have looked much better against 2 weaker teams the question is can they do it against teams that are not in the bottom half of the league. My opinion is "yes", you keep playing them even if there's a risk to doing so. Much like I argued about with Koskinen, there is a bigger downside to overplaying your top guys than "gambling" with guys who are struggling. We saw it in last year's playoffs. Some of the decisions made by our top guys were very poor and I posit fatigue related. Even I they'd have gotten past the Jets, what would have been left in the tank? Same with Smith, he was not great in that series but by then Tipp had made it clear that he didn't trust Kosk. At some point, when it's obvious that these guys are going to be on your roster, the coach has got to give them time to work through their struggles. If not, deep playoff runs are just never going to happen
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Post by igibb on Dec 20, 2021 17:19:14 GMT -7
It's not a chicken and egg situation it a damned if you do damned if your don't situation. It's not that were not producing they were getting badly outscored. I put the stats up before the 3rd line started with 5 goals in their first 4 games and then proceeded to go -10 over the next 10 games. There were 3 games where they broke even in those 10 games and on 3 separate occasions they were -2. It's pretty hard to keep throwing out guys that are putting you 1 or 2 goals in the hole 70% of the time. So what do you do as a coach keep putting guys out there who put you down 2 goals because they can't compete and then double and triple shift the top players to make up those 2 goals or don't play them so you don't go down and double or triple shift the guys who are at least keeping their head above water? It a no win situation for the coach. The bottom 6 played themselves into the trouble they were in. They have looked much better against 2 weaker teams the question is can they do it against teams that are not in the bottom half of the league. My opinion is "yes", you keep playing them even if there's a risk to doing so. Much like I argued about with Koskinen, there is a bigger downside to overplaying your top guys than "gambling" with guys who are struggling. We saw it in last year's playoffs. Some of the decisions made by our top guys were very poor and I posit fatigue related. Even I they'd have gotten past the Jets, what would have been left in the tank? Same with Smith, he was not great in that series but by then Tipp had made it clear that he didn't trust Kosk. At some point, when it's obvious that these guys are going to be on your roster, the coach has got to give them time to work through their struggles. If not, deep playoff runs are just never going to happen That is basically saying you will save your best players for the playoffs that you won't make because we are not winning games that the bottom 6 are giving up more goals than they score or even braking even in and not running out the top line over and over to make up for their deficiencies. It's pretty simple if the bottom 6 is outscored on a nightly basis the extra goals have to come from somewhere and they are not going to come with the top two lines sitting on the bench.
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Post by igibb on Dec 20, 2021 17:22:28 GMT -7
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Post by sharptooth on Dec 20, 2021 18:55:19 GMT -7
The problem is that the top guys get burned out and don’t produce either because they are played too much. See six game losing streak. I think we just need a little more balance so the top guys can continue to play the way they can. I’m not saying sit them on the bench and save them for the playoffs but maybe a little less of them on the ice is more in the long run. Also I do believe that the bottom 6 playing that few minutes also hampers them from getting in a groove.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Dec 20, 2021 19:54:01 GMT -7
The problem is that the top guys get burned out and don’t produce either because they are played too much. See six game losing streak. I think we just need a little more balance so the top guys can continue to play the way they can. I’m not saying sit them on the bench and save them for the playoffs but maybe a little less of them on the ice is more in the long run. Also I do believe that the bottom 6 playing that few minutes also hampers them from getting in a groove. During the 6 game losing streak McDavid was usually between 19-22ish min. There were 2 games where he was 25-26 min. Draisaitl was usually 20-22 with one game at 26 min.
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Post by fogolin2 on Dec 20, 2021 19:54:31 GMT -7
The problem is that the top guys get burned out and don’t produce either because they are played too much. See six game losing streak. I think we just need a little more balance so the top guys can continue to play the way they can. I’m not saying sit them on the bench and save them for the playoffs but maybe a little less of them on the ice is more in the long run. Also I do believe that the bottom 6 playing that few minutes also hampers them from getting in a groove. This is how I see it, and I believe it was Spector's point. Also, the long term benefits FAR outweigh the downside. Without contribution from the 'other guys' we know what we are. A first round sweep, by a decent team with above average goaltending. Money and time spent on Ryan-Foegele-Perlini...might cost us a few points in the regular season, but who cares? We've already seen where the 2man show can carry us, and it's nowhere. Tell me why Benson and Sceviour were 2 feet taller and bulletproof against the Kraken? Somebody probably asked them, and I'll bet dollars to tacos that the answer is minutes.
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Post by AlwaysOil on Dec 21, 2021 12:00:37 GMT -7
I saw something on this a lot of years ago where they examined players from a bunch of sports where play dropped off. Playing very high minutes can be like over-training where you actually lose muscle mass and your game ends up suffering. Coaches can compensate by reducing practice time or intensity which may also contribute to worse play. Players will also compensate by adapting their game more like running a marathon than a sprint. Mentally each shift (should) require a lot of focus so when you add shifts you fatigue your brain and burnout later in the season or, again, you adapt and just focus less.
Pretty sure the coaching staff is aware of all of this and it’s just a risk reward exercise. I would like to see us rest players pre playoffs if we can.
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Post by discostew on Dec 21, 2021 12:43:56 GMT -7
Is blood doping illegal in hockey? Maybe Mcd and Drai just need to start pumping up their blood levels
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onebit
Oilers Roster
Posts: 291
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Post by onebit on Dec 21, 2021 13:49:49 GMT -7
My opinion is "yes", you keep playing them even if there's a risk to doing so. Much like I argued about with Koskinen, there is a bigger downside to overplaying your top guys than "gambling" with guys who are struggling. We saw it in last year's playoffs. Some of the decisions made by our top guys were very poor and I posit fatigue related. Even I they'd have gotten past the Jets, what would have been left in the tank? Same with Smith, he was not great in that series but by then Tipp had made it clear that he didn't trust Kosk. At some point, when it's obvious that these guys are going to be on your roster, the coach has got to give them time to work through their struggles. If not, deep playoff runs are just never going to happen That is basically saying you will save your best players for the playoffs that you won't make because we are not winning games that the bottom 6 are giving up more goals than they score or even braking even in and not running out the top line over and over to make up for their deficiencies. It's pretty simple if the bottom 6 is outscored on a nightly basis the extra goals have to come from somewhere and they are not going to come with the top two lines sitting on the bench. It is simple, if the bottom 6 is being outscored you either A) need to overhaul your bottom 6 or B) work with them and put them into situations where they'll succeed. Thinking that we can leave them on the bench and hope they improve by watching the top six gets us a first round elimination. Here's the thing though, if we overhaul to a new bottom six group but still rely solely on McDrai? Nothing changes. The new group becomes the old group, just like what we've seen happening the last 5 - 6 years.
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