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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 22, 2024 13:26:05 GMT -7
All are very definitely possible! I guess my "piss or get off the pot comment" kinda alludes to what windsor said regarding over over ripening? We/management really should've known by now if he is going to be a FT NHLer or not? It's not like we have a "powerhouse D-corp" that's impossible to crack?? I also said we need to know by start of 24-25 season if he is going to be a regular or tossed into a trade before then? It just feels like Teams with better records than ours, seem to make these decisions a lot quicker on "their top prospects". Without doing a detailed look, I know Boston, canes, NYR etc all have rookies playing meaningful minutes this season and we dont. Is this because we over over-ripen (too long) or that our top prospects just aren't that "top"? either answer is not a great look IMO. pretty soon we will be throwing holloway into this argument too? I would add Lavoie also. He has 24 goals for the Condors this year and is a year older than Holloway. The Oilers are good team but I am fully in favour of letting a few of the older guys walk at the end of the year and having a Bake line. Having 3 solid lines and youth as a 4th can work out just fine. Not much choice, lots of UFAs on our team. Foegele, Erne, Gags, Henrique, Janmark, Brown, Perry, Stecher, Desharnais Would be nice to have 3 players finally step up and stick. At least, after 5 years of drafting under KH. Pederson, Lavoie, Holloway, Hamblin, XB, Gleason, Broberg, Hoef, Kemp. Just give us 3 out of the bunch please. Then the Brown bonus and the buyout or trade/retention on JC will not hurt as bad. If we don't have a recession and cap goes up 4 million, going to be a little more money to spread around and may see less guys making NHL minimum.
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Post by mrtea on Mar 22, 2024 13:31:33 GMT -7
Is he wallowing away? Or, is he playing big minutes in every situation? He wouldn't be doing that on the Oilers Or, has he stalled and is he not going to be a full-time NHLer? I don't know but all are possible. All are very definitely possible! I guess my "piss or get off the pot comment" kinda alludes to what windsor said regarding over over ripening? We/management really should've known by now if he is going to be a FT NHLer or not? It's not like we have a "powerhouse D-corp" that's impossible to crack?? I also said we need to know by start of 24-25 season if he is going to be a regular or tossed into a trade before then? It just feels like Teams with better records than ours, seem to make these decisions a lot quicker on "their top prospects". Without doing a detailed look, I know Boston, canes, NYR etc all have rookies playing meaningful minutes this season and we dont. Is this because we over over-ripen (too long) or that our top prospects just aren't that "top"? either answer is not a great look IMO. pretty soon we will be throwing holloway into this argument too? DrTaf as usual you post thought provoking posts that I enjoy reading. Many times I agree whole heartedly with you and other times I do not, although I usually clearly see where you are coming from. As usual I feel you tend to be a bit harsh on The Oilers management. Judging the NHL worthiness of players and especially young Dmen is tricky at best. Many teams have been guilty of under valuing their prospects because they have not turned into the player they thought they had quick enough and then trade them away or let them walk for one reason or another. Then sure as shiite some other team or GM scoops them up and they develop into this great player for that organization who may or may not turn into what they expected or a good NHLer playing a different role than originally predicted. Remember when Chara was let go by Ottawa because he didn't develop quick enough, or not a Dman but when Thornton was traded by Boston because he wasn't the star they thought he would be. San Jose looked like geniuses but only because Boston gave up on their guy too soon. Broberg and Holloway are not quite in those categories, but you get what I'm trying to say..... it's not that easy or cut and dry and sometimes you make the wrong decisions for the right reasons and later regret not having more patience. Then other times you wait too long investing resources that were better spent on developing some other player. As a GM sometimes you just can't win, especially when there is a DrTaf waiting in the wings to pounce on your next mistake. I'm just ribbing you Taf, I hope you know I respect your opinion and enjoy our debates.
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Post by mrtea on Mar 22, 2024 13:38:28 GMT -7
I would add Lavoie also. He has 24 goals for the Condors this year and is a year older than Holloway. The Oilers are good team but I am fully in favour of letting a few of the older guys walk at the end of the year and having a Bake line. Having 3 solid lines and youth as a 4th can work out just fine. Not much choice, lots of UFAs on our team. Foegele, Erne, Gags, Henrique, Janmark, Brown, Perry, Stecher, Desharnais Would be nice to have 3 players finally step up and stick. At least, after 5 years of drafting under KH. Pederson, Lavoie, Holloway, Hamblin, XB, Gleason, Broberg, Hoef, Kemp. Just give us 3 out of the bunch please. Then the Brown bonus and the buyout or trade/retention on JC will not hurt as bad. If we don't have a recession and cap goes up 4 million, going to be a little more money to spread around and may see less guys making NHL minimum. Even when the cap goes up, we are still going to need those NHL minimum salaries because Draisaitl, McDavid, Bouchard and Desharnais are all going to be needing new contracts and we are going to want to be competitive whether we win this year or not. We may also want to keep Henrique or Foegele or Janmark or Perry or whoever for another year or two or three..
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Post by drtaf on Mar 22, 2024 14:44:24 GMT -7
All are very definitely possible! I guess my "piss or get off the pot comment" kinda alludes to what windsor said regarding over over ripening? We/management really should've known by now if he is going to be a FT NHLer or not? It's not like we have a "powerhouse D-corp" that's impossible to crack?? I also said we need to know by start of 24-25 season if he is going to be a regular or tossed into a trade before then? It just feels like Teams with better records than ours, seem to make these decisions a lot quicker on "their top prospects". Without doing a detailed look, I know Boston, canes, NYR etc all have rookies playing meaningful minutes this season and we dont. Is this because we over over-ripen (too long) or that our top prospects just aren't that "top"? either answer is not a great look IMO. pretty soon we will be throwing holloway into this argument too? DrTaf as usual you post thought provoking posts that I enjoy reading. Many times I agree whole heartedly with you and other times I do not, although I usually clearly see where you are coming from. As usual I feel you tend to be a bit harsh on The Oilers management. Judging the NHL worthiness of players and especially young Dmen is tricky at best. Many teams have been guilty of under valuing their prospects because they have not turned into the player they thought they had quick enough and then trade them away or let them walk for one reason or another. Then sure as shiite some other team or GM scoops them up and they develop into this great player for that organization who may or may not turn into what they expected or a good NHLer playing a different role than originally predicted. Remember when Chara was let go by Ottawa because he didn't develop quick enough, or not a Dman but when Thornton was traded by Boston because he wasn't the star they thought he would be. San Jose looked like geniuses but only because Boston gave up on their guy too soon. Broberg and Holloway are not quite in those categories, but you get what I'm trying to say..... it's not that easy or cut and dry and sometimes you make the wrong decisions for the right reasons and later regret not having more patience. Then other times you wait too long investing resources that were better spent on developing some other player. As a GM sometimes you just can't win, especially when there is a DrTaf waiting in the wings to pounce on your next mistake. I'm just ribbing you Taf, I hope you know I respect your opinion and enjoy our debates. All good T and I dont mind debating this topic as there are definitely pros and cons and grey areas to "throwing rookies into the fire" vs "over ripening on the vine"! My feeling though is that "good" Teams are moving away from the latter tactic and switching more and more to the former? I believe as a result of the stagnant cap these last few years "forcing" teams to have to have ELC contracts on their rosters to make the cap work. There is absolutely the possibility of throwing a "Grade A baby" out with the bathwater and i'm sure it happens, but that's where "good teams" also excel, they identify the "cast off mistakes" of other teams and sign them to cheap deals? But that takes a good "pro scouting team" and many folks inc me dont think edmonton's pro scouts have been all that great either? whether its finding a rookie who can jump to the NHL quickly or finding someone else's castoffs that need a change of scenery to become an NHLer, teams will always need ELC/min wage contracts that can not only play but have meaningful impact. IMO, it's the oilers one glaring weakness in an otherwise very solid team
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Post by mrtea on Mar 22, 2024 15:23:34 GMT -7
DrTaf as usual you post thought provoking posts that I enjoy reading. Many times I agree whole heartedly with you and other times I do not, although I usually clearly see where you are coming from. As usual I feel you tend to be a bit harsh on The Oilers management. Judging the NHL worthiness of players and especially young Dmen is tricky at best. Many teams have been guilty of under valuing their prospects because they have not turned into the player they thought they had quick enough and then trade them away or let them walk for one reason or another. Then sure as shiite some other team or GM scoops them up and they develop into this great player for that organization who may or may not turn into what they expected or a good NHLer playing a different role than originally predicted. Remember when Chara was let go by Ottawa because he didn't develop quick enough, or not a Dman but when Thornton was traded by Boston because he wasn't the star they thought he would be. San Jose looked like geniuses but only because Boston gave up on their guy too soon. Broberg and Holloway are not quite in those categories, but you get what I'm trying to say..... it's not that easy or cut and dry and sometimes you make the wrong decisions for the right reasons and later regret not having more patience. Then other times you wait too long investing resources that were better spent on developing some other player. As a GM sometimes you just can't win, especially when there is a DrTaf waiting in the wings to pounce on your next mistake. I'm just ribbing you Taf, I hope you know I respect your opinion and enjoy our debates. All good T and I dont mind debating this topic as there are definitely pros and cons and grey areas to "throwing rookies into the fire" vs "over ripening on the vine"! My feeling though is that "good" Teams are moving away from the latter tactic and switching more and more to the former? I believe as a result of the stagnant cap these last few years "forcing" teams to have to have ELC contracts on their rosters to make the cap work. There is absolutely the possibility of throwing a "Grade A baby" out with the bathwater and i'm sure it happens, but that's where "good teams" also excel, they identify the "cast off mistakes" of other teams and sign them to cheap deals? But that takes a good "pro scouting team" and many folks inc me dont think edmonton's pro scouts have been all that great either? whether its finding a rookie who can jump to the NHL quickly or finding someone else's castoffs that need a change of scenery to become an NHLer, teams will always need ELC/min wage contracts that can not only play but have meaningful impact. IMO, it's the oilers one glaring weakness in an otherwise very solid team Our pro scouts can't be that bad, some scouts had to be involved in targeting Ekholm last season at the trade deadline out of nowhere, and back when we signed Hyman there had to some scouting involved there. That didn't turn out that bad. Kane, Perry and Henrique must have had a scout or two involved. Drafting we have Bouchard, McLeod, Holloway, Skinner and Desharnais playing for us not counting our top draft picks McDavid, Draisaitl, and Nugent Hopkins. Skinner and Desharnais are later round picks who have done pretty well with lots of hard work. Bottom line is our scouts are not that bad in my opinion. Could they be better, sure but every team would say that.
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Post by fogolin2 on Mar 22, 2024 16:07:49 GMT -7
Is he wallowing away? Or, is he playing big minutes in every situation? He wouldn't be doing that on the Oilers Or, has he stalled and is he not going to be a full-time NHLer? I don't know but all are possible. All are very definitely possible! I guess my "piss or get off the pot comment" kinda alludes to what windsor said regarding over over ripening? We/management really should've known by now if he is going to be a FT NHLer or not? It's not like we have a "powerhouse D-corp" that's impossible to crack?? I also said we need to know by start of 24-25 season if he is going to be a regular or tossed into a trade before then? It just feels like Teams with better records than ours, seem to make these decisions a lot quicker on "their top prospects". Without doing a detailed look, I know Boston, canes, NYR etc all have rookies playing meaningful minutes this season and we dont. Is this because we over over-ripen (too long) or that our top prospects just aren't that "top"? either answer is not a great look IMO. pretty soon we will be throwing holloway into this argument too? At the root of all of this is Edmonton and our inability to draw players with contract control or free agent options. Every gm we've had, or will ever have, is limited by the fact that we NEED to give our picks every chance to work out. Most strong top3 men in the league have a say in where they play, and it ain't us. Same reason we can't trade picks for rentals. Such a tiny chance that the rental resigns here.
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Post by yuke on Mar 22, 2024 20:25:06 GMT -7
No, Its call Stetcher is RD and Broberg is LD, never mind the little savings we gain from not filling our cap space. No it's called broberg would be playing if stecher wasn't on the team. Stetcher played on his off side just the other night, so he can play both sides. Wrong again Windsor. If Broberg was up he would have played the left side when Elkhom was ill. Be pretty stupid to fly a guy up for 1 game, don't you think.
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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 22, 2024 21:14:07 GMT -7
No it's called broberg would be playing if stecher wasn't on the team. Stetcher played on his off side just the other night, so he can play both sides. Wrong again Windsor. If Broberg was up he would have played the left side when Elkhom was ill. Be pretty stupid to fly a guy up for 1 game, don't you think. Broberg can play both sides also. Stecher has played what 3 or 4 games so far. In case you didn't know, one of Holland's favorite quotes in terms of defenseman, is having large trees with lots of shrubbery or something like that meaning on defense he doesn't typically prefer the smaller players. So take from that what you will, he is the 8th defenseman, stecher is the 7th. Should not have said broberg isn't good enough, should have said the coach in this case prefers experience over youth. Broberg had his chance earlier in the season, he made mistakes, that's why he's down, so yeah, in a way he's not good enough. Hopefully his big minutes in the minors will help him improve his game and he'll be ready the next time around. He's a top 10 pick, and he's already had quite a bit of time to figure things out. Next year he better damn well be at least a third pairing defenseman.
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Post by mrtea on Mar 22, 2024 22:07:14 GMT -7
Wrong again Windsor. If Broberg was up he would have played the left side when Elkhom was ill. Be pretty stupid to fly a guy up for 1 game, don't you think. Broberg can play both sides also. Stecher has played what 3 or 4 games so far. In case you didn't know, one of Holland's favorite quotes in terms of defenseman, is having large trees with lots of shrubbery or something like that meaning on defense he doesn't typically prefer the smaller players. So take from that what you will, he is the 8th defenseman, stecher is the 7th. Should not have said broberg isn't good enough, should have said the coach in this case prefers experience over youth. Broberg had his chance earlier in the season, he made mistakes, that's why he's down, so yeah, in a way he's not good enough. Hopefully his big minutes in the minors will help him improve his game and he'll be ready the next time around. He's a top 10 pick, and he's already had quite a bit of time to figure things out. Next year he better damn well be at least a third pairing defenseman. The last I heard was a couple of months ago roughly, that Broberg was playing very well and that people were taking notice. After that I had not heard anything and then at the trade deadline his name was bounced around about possibly being traded, but only for something good coming back. Then there was talk about would he be brought up or kept down there or traded and nobody seemed to know anything definite. My thoughts are that he does still look promising, but he needs to be a full time NHLer next season either here or traded. I'm thinking until then he stays in the minors getting as much playing time and experience as possible and that when the playoffs start he'll be brought up for depth and might slot in depending what the coach needs in the lineup. What Broberg lacks in experience, he makes up for with his size and speed. Those are my thoughts and maybe I'm way off base, but it makes sense to me.
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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 23, 2024 8:39:01 GMT -7
Broberg can play both sides also. Stecher has played what 3 or 4 games so far. In case you didn't know, one of Holland's favorite quotes in terms of defenseman, is having large trees with lots of shrubbery or something like that meaning on defense he doesn't typically prefer the smaller players. So take from that what you will, he is the 8th defenseman, stecher is the 7th. Should not have said broberg isn't good enough, should have said the coach in this case prefers experience over youth. Broberg had his chance earlier in the season, he made mistakes, that's why he's down, so yeah, in a way he's not good enough. Hopefully his big minutes in the minors will help him improve his game and he'll be ready the next time around. He's a top 10 pick, and he's already had quite a bit of time to figure things out. Next year he better damn well be at least a third pairing defenseman. The last I heard was a couple of months ago roughly, that Broberg was playing very well and that people were taking notice. After that I had not heard anything and then at the trade deadline his name was bounced around about possibly being traded, but only for something good coming back. Then there was talk about would he be brought up or kept down there or traded and nobody seemed to know anything definite. My thoughts are that he does still look promising, but he needs to be a full time NHLer next season either here or traded. I'm thinking until then he stays in the minors getting as much playing time and experience as possible and that when the playoffs start he'll be brought up for depth and might slot in depending what the coach needs in the lineup. What Broberg lacks in experience, he makes up for with his size and speed. Those are my thoughts and maybe I'm way off base, but it makes sense to me. Well he is getting that experience playing top pairing in the minors. Broberg has all the tools but he was lacking that experience and hockey sense. Last off season he came in bigger, lots of weight training apparently however he looked slower. He already has enough size. I'm sure he will be our 4th LD and either Stecher or Ceci will be our 4RD come playoff time. Never know when it come to JC, this is his thread. He's played well enough and another team may be willing to give him a shot. We need to clear a D to give that $ to Desharnais, we were hoping for 1.5-2 million but that's probably not realistic. Getting Seeler money is probably where it's going to be at. Maybe if we are lucky we can trade JC at 30% retained, throw in Ceci for a bag of pucks. Would clear almost 7 million in salary, we would be retaining 1.5. Make room for Broberg, sign Desi, provide $ to sign another RH D (cheaper or upgrade on Ceci) and to help alleviate Brown's bonus. Foegele has earned a raise also, not sure we can afford him next year so we shall see. We have 14 million in cap space to start next season with only 13 of our current 22 players signed on the roster. Going to be lots of moves/changes.
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Post by toley on Mar 23, 2024 9:27:17 GMT -7
The last I heard was a couple of months ago roughly, that Broberg was playing very well and that people were taking notice. After that I had not heard anything and then at the trade deadline his name was bounced around about possibly being traded, but only for something good coming back. Then there was talk about would he be brought up or kept down there or traded and nobody seemed to know anything definite. My thoughts are that he does still look promising, but he needs to be a full time NHLer next season either here or traded. I'm thinking until then he stays in the minors getting as much playing time and experience as possible and that when the playoffs start he'll be brought up for depth and might slot in depending what the coach needs in the lineup. What Broberg lacks in experience, he makes up for with his size and speed. Those are my thoughts and maybe I'm way off base, but it makes sense to me. Well he is getting that experience playing top pairing in the minors. Broberg has all the tools but he was lacking that experience and hockey sense. Last off season he came in bigger, lots of weight training apparently however he looked slower. He already has enough size. I'm sure he will be our 4th LD and either Stecher or Ceci will be our 4RD come playoff time. Never know when it come to JC, this is his thread. He's played well enough and another team may be willing to give him a shot. We need to clear a D to give that $ to Desharnais, we were hoping for 1.5-2 million but that's probably not realistic. Getting Seeler money is probably where it's going to be at. Maybe if we are lucky we can trade JC at 30% retained, throw in Ceci for a bag of pucks. Would clear almost 7 million in salary, we would be retaining 1.5. Make room for Broberg, sign Desi, provide $ to sign another RH D (cheaper or upgrade on Ceci) and to help alleviate Brown's bonus. Foegele has earned a raise also, not sure we can afford him next year so we shall see. We have 14 million in cap space to start next season with only 13 of our current 22 players signed on the roster. Going to be lots of moves/changes. Campbell will just get bought out. $2mill should be Desharnais max, should be able to entice him with term, just like Foegele. I'm not too sure on an upgrade for Ceci, you can probably trade him and retain for the year but what are you getting to fill that spot? Who are you evaluating as an affordable upgrade, that's obtainable for the Oilers? Not to mention, they'll be making room for Draisatl's next contract, and McDavid's.
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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 23, 2024 10:13:36 GMT -7
Well he is getting that experience playing top pairing in the minors. Broberg has all the tools but he was lacking that experience and hockey sense. Last off season he came in bigger, lots of weight training apparently however he looked slower. He already has enough size. I'm sure he will be our 4th LD and either Stecher or Ceci will be our 4RD come playoff time. Never know when it come to JC, this is his thread. He's played well enough and another team may be willing to give him a shot. We need to clear a D to give that $ to Desharnais, we were hoping for 1.5-2 million but that's probably not realistic. Getting Seeler money is probably where it's going to be at. Maybe if we are lucky we can trade JC at 30% retained, throw in Ceci for a bag of pucks. Would clear almost 7 million in salary, we would be retaining 1.5. Make room for Broberg, sign Desi, provide $ to sign another RH D (cheaper or upgrade on Ceci) and to help alleviate Brown's bonus. Foegele has earned a raise also, not sure we can afford him next year so we shall see. We have 14 million in cap space to start next season with only 13 of our current 22 players signed on the roster. Going to be lots of moves/changes. Campbell will just get bought out. $2mill should be Desharnais max, should be able to entice him with term, just like Foegele. I'm not too sure on an upgrade for Ceci, you can probably trade him and retain for the year but what are you getting to fill that spot? Who are you evaluating as an affordable upgrade, that's obtainable for the Oilers? Not to mention, they'll be making room for Draisatl's next contract, and McDavid's. I hope not. LA got rid of the Peterson contract, hopefully we can too. JC has a .920 save% in the AHL, after his terrible start that gives him a chance to have some value. Who knows, maybe in the playoffs somehow, some way he will play and be lights out. Ceci, unless he's playing hurt is on the 3rd pairing right now. So you have Kulak at 2.75 mil and Ceci at 3.25 mil. That's quite a bit of bread at 6 mil for our 3rd pair defense. So not sure what the solution is. Exactly, Neal's buyout comes off the books (2 million) just as Drai's contract expires so this will help. Hoping we do not have another buyout in JC... We would still have to pay him 10.5 mil out of his 13.5 mil remaining over 6 years. Not much savings, it's just spread out. If we can trade him at 30% retained it's net 4.5 million over 3 years. I prefer the latter. JC at 3.5 mil to another team for 3 years is attractive if he plays well. We would be on the hook for 1.5 mil for the next 3 years, the impact just wouldn't be as bad. Usually I'm the one that hopes for the low dollar amount contracts. If Desi continues to play well, don't want to undercut him and he is 2.7 mil (same as Seeler), he may be worth 3 million on the open market. Gudbranson, similar player to Desi is making 4 million in Columbus. So yeah it sounds high.
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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 23, 2024 10:56:05 GMT -7
All are very definitely possible! I guess my "piss or get off the pot comment" kinda alludes to what windsor said regarding over over ripening? We/management really should've known by now if he is going to be a FT NHLer or not? It's not like we have a "powerhouse D-corp" that's impossible to crack?? I also said we need to know by start of 24-25 season if he is going to be a regular or tossed into a trade before then? It just feels like Teams with better records than ours, seem to make these decisions a lot quicker on "their top prospects". Without doing a detailed look, I know Boston, canes, NYR etc all have rookies playing meaningful minutes this season and we dont. Is this because we over over-ripen (too long) or that our top prospects just aren't that "top"? either answer is not a great look IMO. pretty soon we will be throwing holloway into this argument too? At the root of all of this is Edmonton and our inability to draw players with contract control or free agent options. Every gm we've had, or will ever have, is limited by the fact that we NEED to give our picks every chance to work out. Most strong top3 men in the league have a say in where they play, and it ain't us. Same reason we can't trade picks for rentals. Such a tiny chance that the rental resigns here. While your comment is true and agree, depending on the player just have a listen to this... my argument compared to yours has always been about hockey and winning 1st, raising a family as the main priorities for SOME players at least. Edmonton had the decade of darkness, now we have a culture built, some playoff series wins, the potential to do even better is there. Players career can be short, winning is important. Playing with the best players is important. We are giving away picks to win now. Rentals resigning here vs Foegele or Desi that can get more on the open market is a possibility. That's the market as you would say. Around the 4 minute mark.
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Post by toley on Mar 23, 2024 11:03:30 GMT -7
Campbell will just get bought out. $2mill should be Desharnais max, should be able to entice him with term, just like Foegele. I'm not too sure on an upgrade for Ceci, you can probably trade him and retain for the year but what are you getting to fill that spot? Who are you evaluating as an affordable upgrade, that's obtainable for the Oilers? Not to mention, they'll be making room for Draisatl's next contract, and McDavid's. I hope not. LA got rid of the Peterson contract, hopefully we can too. JC has a .920 save% in the AHL, after his terrible start that gives him a chance to have some value. Who knows, maybe in the playoffs somehow, some way he will play and be lights out. Ceci, unless he's playing hurt is on the 3rd pairing right now. So you have Kulak at 2.75 mil and Ceci at 3.25 mil. That's quite a bit of bread at 6 mil for our 3rd pair defense. So not sure what the solution is. Exactly, Neal's buyout comes off the books (2 million) just as Drai's contract expires so this will help. Hoping we do not have another buyout in JC... We would still have to pay him 10.5 mil out of his 13.5 mil remaining over 6 years. Not much savings, it's just spread out. If we can trade him at 30% retained it's net 4.5 million over 3 years. I prefer the latter. JC at 3.5 mil to another team for 3 years is attractive if he plays well. We would be on the hook for 1.5 mil for the next 3 years, the impact just wouldn't be as bad. Usually I'm the one that hopes for the low dollar amount contracts. If Desi continues to play well, don't want to undercut him and he is 2.7 mil (same as Seeler), he may be worth 3 million on the open market. Gudbranson, similar player to Desi is making 4 million in Columbus. So yeah it sounds high. I think you have too much optimism, the Kings traded Petersen, Walker, and a Prospect in Grans, also retaining on Provorov. So essentially, A struggling goalie, a struggling forward, and a mid tier prospect? I'm not familiar with Grans. I don't know how the Oilers could put a trade like that off. Campbell playing for the Oilers in the playoffs isn't a scenario I want or am hoping for. I don't think $3.5mill, is attractive for an inconsistent goaltender, unless the team has the cap space and are willing to take the risk, for example the Sharks, but you're giving up a first or prospect for them to take him. A .920S% in the AHL, isn't equivalent to a .920S% in the NHL. Desharnais' next cap hit, will also depend on term, it shouldn't be more then $2mill.
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Post by windsoroiler on Mar 23, 2024 11:42:26 GMT -7
I hope not. LA got rid of the Peterson contract, hopefully we can too. JC has a .920 save% in the AHL, after his terrible start that gives him a chance to have some value. Who knows, maybe in the playoffs somehow, some way he will play and be lights out. Ceci, unless he's playing hurt is on the 3rd pairing right now. So you have Kulak at 2.75 mil and Ceci at 3.25 mil. That's quite a bit of bread at 6 mil for our 3rd pair defense. So not sure what the solution is. Exactly, Neal's buyout comes off the books (2 million) just as Drai's contract expires so this will help. Hoping we do not have another buyout in JC... We would still have to pay him 10.5 mil out of his 13.5 mil remaining over 6 years. Not much savings, it's just spread out. If we can trade him at 30% retained it's net 4.5 million over 3 years. I prefer the latter. JC at 3.5 mil to another team for 3 years is attractive if he plays well. We would be on the hook for 1.5 mil for the next 3 years, the impact just wouldn't be as bad. Usually I'm the one that hopes for the low dollar amount contracts. If Desi continues to play well, don't want to undercut him and he is 2.7 mil (same as Seeler), he may be worth 3 million on the open market. Gudbranson, similar player to Desi is making 4 million in Columbus. So yeah it sounds high. I think you have too much optimism, the Kings traded Petersen, Walker, and a Prospect in Grans, also retaining on Provorov. So essentially, A struggling goalie, a struggling forward, and a mid tier prospect? I'm not familiar with Grans. I don't know how the Oilers could put a trade like that off. Campbell playing for the Oilers in the playoffs isn't a scenario I want or am hoping for. I don't think $3.5mill, is attractive for an inconsistent goaltender, unless the team has the cap space and are willing to take the risk, for example the Sharks, but you're giving up a first or prospect for them to take him. A .920S% in the AHL, isn't equivalent to a .920S% in the NHL. Desharnais' next cap hit, will also depend on term, it shouldn't be more then $2mill. Very few would say this lol. Before this year Walker as we saw last playoffs and won was a depth D (Oilers vs Kings), the 30% retention can be said the same for Provo vs JC. So we will see. Desi, my target is yours. Will he stay at a discount, we will see. 2 million is short and would like him there also. He is now playing top 4, if he excels, we need to pay up. You have a player that is improving and working his way up.
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Post by toley on Mar 23, 2024 12:16:34 GMT -7
I think you have too much optimism, the Kings traded Petersen, Walker, and a Prospect in Grans, also retaining on Provorov. So essentially, A struggling goalie, a struggling forward, and a mid tier prospect? I'm not familiar with Grans. I don't know how the Oilers could put a trade like that off. Campbell playing for the Oilers in the playoffs isn't a scenario I want or am hoping for. I don't think $3.5mill, is attractive for an inconsistent goaltender, unless the team has the cap space and are willing to take the risk, for example the Sharks, but you're giving up a first or prospect for them to take him. A .920S% in the AHL, isn't equivalent to a .920S% in the NHL. Desharnais' next cap hit, will also depend on term, it shouldn't be more then $2mill. Very few would say this lol. Before this year Walker as we saw last playoffs and won was a depth D (Oilers vs Kings), the 30% retention can be said the same for Provo vs JC. So we will see. Desi, my target is yours. Will he stay at a discount, we will see. 2 million is short and would like him there also. He is now playing top 4, if he excels, we need to pay up. You have a player that is improving and working his way up. I have a feeling they'll take the easy route, even if that means holding on a lump sum through 6 years. Also Holland isn't going to be the one to do it either. Yes, Desharnais is playing top 4 now, but that doesn't at all mean he'll get paid like it. You get paid for what you've done in the NHL, rarely does one get paid for what they're going to do. He has a couple of games in the top 4, not a year and some.
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Post by mrtea on Mar 23, 2024 12:22:25 GMT -7
Very few would say this lol. Before this year Walker as we saw last playoffs and won was a depth D (Oilers vs Kings), the 30% retention can be said the same for Provo vs JC. So we will see. Desi, my target is yours. Will he stay at a discount, we will see. 2 million is short and would like him there also. He is now playing top 4, if he excels, we need to pay up. You have a player that is improving and working his way up. I have a feeling they'll take the easy route, even if that means holding on a lump sum through 6 years. Also Holland isn't going to be the one to do it either. Yes, Desharnais is playing top 4 now, but that doesn't at all mean he'll get paid like it. You get paid for what you've done in the NHL, rarely does one get paid for what they're going to do. He has a couple of games in the top 4, not a year and some. When it comes to how long and at how much, I'm not sure what to expect except that I hope it's for at least 3 years and like Toley I hope we can get Vinnie for 2 - 2.5. We'll see.
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Post by fogolin2 on Mar 23, 2024 19:35:17 GMT -7
At the root of all of this is Edmonton and our inability to draw players with contract control or free agent options. Every gm we've had, or will ever have, is limited by the fact that we NEED to give our picks every chance to work out. Most strong top3 men in the league have a say in where they play, and it ain't us. Same reason we can't trade picks for rentals. Such a tiny chance that the rental resigns here. While your comment is true and agree, depending on the player just have a listen to this... my argument compared to yours has always been about hockey and winning 1st, raising a family as the main priorities for SOME players at least. Edmonton had the decade of darkness, now we have a culture built, some playoff series wins, the potential to do even better is there. Players career can be short, winning is important. Playing with the best players is important. We are giving away picks to win now. Rentals resigning here vs Foegele or Desi that can get more on the open market is a possibility. That's the market as you would say. Around the 4 minute mark. Winning is important but it's easier where other good players would choose to go. Did Foegele or Desi take a discount? I don't think so.
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