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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 23, 2023 18:45:53 GMT -7
Vegas got Weber by trading a player with a $5 Million dollar cap hit that had score 20 goals. That's how they cleared cap space. Who do we have like that? Weber and all the other names you listed going the Arz were all also on old contracts that were heavily front loaded so taking them on meant paying practically nothing in actual dollars for the remainder of the contract. Those types of contracts haven't been legal for 10 years now so they are few and far between these days. Teams like Arizona are not taking on long term contracts that require paying millions of dollars every year to a player not playing. Kane is a possibility for the Rangers because he is on his last year of his contract so you get two teams to retain 50% of his salary and you trade away a few cheaper contracts and give away the farm in draft picks to get him. It would 100% be dollars in dollars out with the Rangers as well. we could and have been rumored to be in on Kane as well but is that what this team needs? The problem is the guys we are looking at have multiple years left on their contracts so teams are not going to retain 50% of an $11 million dollar contract for 4 years or 50% of a $6.5 million 7 year contract so we are able to fit them in under the cap. There are probably lots of names we could bring in and make a big splash but are they what this team needs? Making a trade for the sake of a trade is just as bad as not making one at all. People also need to remember there are actual dollars being paid to these players and owners who have to shell out those dollars. You need to get a Mangiapane load back in a trade as an owner to agree to pay close to $6 million dollars for someone you no longer have for the next 4 years. To put it onto perspective the Wild just got a 4th round pick for paying about $600,000 of O'Reillys contract for this year. What happens if they trade Klefbom? essentially the exact same thing... one question, does Klef have a NMC? lmao!!
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Post by neufab94 on Feb 23, 2023 19:54:30 GMT -7
What happens if they trade Klefbom? essentially the exact same thing... one question, does Klef have a NMC? lmao!! Ha ha ha. Klef has M-NTC last year of the contract at $4.167 mil. I don't get how the LTIR relief works since the Oilers have Smith on there also and had Kane on LTIR for 30 games, yet capfriendly has the Oilers only at about 500k at deadline. For the sake of argument, if Klef got traded would that open up $4.167 or the percentage of the season remaining closer to $1 mil? Now, even if the team gained the 4 mil, it would take at least a 1st round pick and a player to make it go. For the right guy why not go for it? I am just not sold on the names floating around out there. O'Reilly might have been the guy. Maybe Josh Anderson? Thing is, KH's most creative move is the Lucic deal. I have low expectations but it would be fun to see an Oiler GM be creative to make a splash.
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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 23, 2023 19:59:52 GMT -7
essentially the exact same thing... one question, does Klef have a NMC? lmao!! Ha ha ha. Klef has M-NTC last year of the contract at $4.167 mil. I don't get how the LTIR relief works since the Oilers have Smith on there also and had Kane on LTIR for 30 games, yet capfriendly has the Oilers only at about 500k at deadline. For the sake of argument, if Klef got traded would that open up $4.167 or the percentage of the season remaining closer to $1 mil? Now, even if the team gained the 4 mil, it would take at least a 1st round pick and a player to make it go. For the right guy why not go for it? I am just not sold on the names floating around out there. O'Reilly might have been the guy. Maybe Josh Anderson? Thing is, KH's most creative move is the Lucic deal. I have low expectations but it would be fun to see an Oiler GM be creative to make a splash. To the best of my knowledge, a team is allowed to exceed their cap by the difference between the teams total cap and that same cap minus the players remaining cap hit. So, if a team is not using as much LTIR as the total cap of that player (which wouldn't happen unless they are out for most or all of the season AND the team is at 100% of their allowed cap hit), then it's more beneficial to trade that player away as the team would gain his entire remaining cap as relief rather than exceeding the team cap by that initially described difference.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 23, 2023 20:07:05 GMT -7
Ask yourself: How did Vegas end up with Weber? Why did they trade for a crippled D-man with no chance of ever playing again? How many Weber-like contracts are out there in The nhl right now? I can think of a few off top of my head. AFAIK those famous yotes Datsyuk, hossa and now Weber are all still yotes 😂 . That’s the point really. Where there’s a will, there’s probably a creative way. I hear for example NYR is exploring how to bring Kane in even though they have <$200k of space right now and just added Taresenko?? Fact is, other teams with just as little cap and just as much or more ltir, are making/will be making moves to try and get an edge for playoffs. And yes some will fail since there will only be 1 winner at the end. However, saying you can’t do anything because you’re right to the cap imo means you don’t know how to do your job properly and should be fireable offense. After all, why do we have zero space? Not like he inherited this team yesterday? EDM media may give Kenny a free pass, but I expect him to earn that $5M per year and maybe he will?? Still lots of time for an old dog to learn a new trick! Vegas got Weber by trading a player with a $5 Million dollar cap hit that had score 20 goals. That's how they cleared cap space. Who do we have like that? Weber and all the other names you listed going the Arz were all also on old contracts that were heavily front loaded so taking them on meant paying practically nothing in actual dollars for the remainder of the contract. Those types of contracts haven't been legal for 10 years now so they are few and far between these days. Teams like Arizona are not taking on long term contracts that require paying millions of dollars every year to a player not playing. Kane is a possibility for the Rangers because he is on his last year of his contract so you get two teams to retain 50% of his salary and you trade away a few cheaper contracts and give away the farm in draft picks to get him. It would 100% be dollars in dollars out with the Rangers as well. we could and have been rumored to be in on Kane as well but is that what this team needs? The problem is the guys we are looking at have multiple years left on their contracts so teams are not going to retain 50% of an $11 million dollar contract for 4 years or 50% of a $6.5 million 7 year contract so we are able to fit them in under the cap. There are probably lots of names we could bring in and make a big splash but are they what this team needs? Making a trade for the sake of a trade is just as bad as not making one at all. People also need to remember there are actual dollars being paid to these players and owners who have to shell out those dollars. You need to get a Mangiapane load back in a trade as an owner to agree to pay close to $6 million dollars for someone you no longer have for the next 4 years. To put it onto perspective the Wild just got a 4th round pick for paying about $600,000 of O'Reillys contract for this year. Katz has shown repeatedly, money is no object if it means making the team better and giving this team best chance of winning a cup. I agree with everything you say but dont quite get if other teams can do these trades hard against the cap then why not Edmonton? and again, if KH does nothing because he thinks the answer is n the room, on the farm or even because he thinks the cost is too high then I'm fine with that, but then if they fall flat then the buck stops with him as the boss. If they make the conf finals or better, he is sure to get all the bouquets, especially from the psychophantic edm media? All i'm saying is if they lay a brick then he has to take the fall. He gets paid $5M to be "that guy". This attitude of "If he doesn't do anything, he can't screw up" is not what wins championships. just hearing Bruins gave up a Mangiapane ton of picks and players to caps for Orlov and hathaway? Bruins are currently on the best winning % in history and their guy feels the need to load up for a cup run? What does that tell you? standing pat is the way to go because otherwise i might screw up??
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Post by igibb on Feb 24, 2023 10:02:42 GMT -7
essentially the exact same thing... one question, does Klef have a NMC? lmao!! Ha ha ha. Klef has M-NTC last year of the contract at $4.167 mil. I don't get how the LTIR relief works since the Oilers have Smith on there also and had Kane on LTIR for 30 games, yet capfriendly has the Oilers only at about 500k at deadline. For the sake of argument, if Klef got traded would that open up $4.167 or the percentage of the season remaining closer to $1 mil? Now, even if the team gained the 4 mil, it would take at least a 1st round pick and a player to make it go. For the right guy why not go for it? I am just not sold on the names floating around out there. O'Reilly might have been the guy. Maybe Josh Anderson? Thing is, KH's most creative move is the Lucic deal. I have low expectations but it would be fun to see an Oiler GM be creative to make a splash. The tricky thing with LTIR is you need to be right up against the cap ceiling for it to take effect. The amount of relief you get is the contract on LTIR minus the amount of cap space you have left. So say you have $2 million in cap space left and you put a player that has a $4 million dollar cap hit on LTIR you can exceed the cap by $2 million to replace him not $4 million as the contract sucks up your $2 million in cap space. So trading Klef would gain us nothing as all his relief is due to the fact we are up against the cap. We are using his LTIR for the players we already have. We would have to shed $4.16 million in cap if we traded him. It's the reason teams who have guys on career ending LTIR are always trying to get right up to the cap at the beginning of the year so they get the full value of the relief.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 24, 2023 22:19:37 GMT -7
Ha ha ha. Klef has M-NTC last year of the contract at $4.167 mil. I don't get how the LTIR relief works since the Oilers have Smith on there also and had Kane on LTIR for 30 games, yet capfriendly has the Oilers only at about 500k at deadline. For the sake of argument, if Klef got traded would that open up $4.167 or the percentage of the season remaining closer to $1 mil? Now, even if the team gained the 4 mil, it would take at least a 1st round pick and a player to make it go. For the right guy why not go for it? I am just not sold on the names floating around out there. O'Reilly might have been the guy. Maybe Josh Anderson? Thing is, KH's most creative move is the Lucic deal. I have low expectations but it would be fun to see an Oiler GM be creative to make a splash. The tricky thing with LTIR is you need to be right up against the cap ceiling for it to take effect. The amount of relief you get is the contract on LTIR minus the amount of cap space you have left. So say you have $2 million in cap space left and you put a player that has a $4 million dollar cap hit on LTIR you can exceed the cap by $2 million to replace him not $4 million as the contract sucks up your $2 million in cap space. So trading Klef would gain us nothing as all his relief is due to the fact we are up against the cap. We are using his LTIR for the players we already have. We would have to shed $4.16 million in cap if we traded him. It's the reason teams who have guys on career ending LTIR are always trying to get right up to the cap at the beginning of the year so they get the full value of the relief. It is tricky, but the top teams are paying guys to do the high-wire juggling act in order to make use of/trade/get secondary-tertiary teams involved etc. Eg, I would not be surprised that Landeskog stays on LTIR till playoffs so Avs have a bit more wiggle room and then he'll miraculously appear for playoffs? ie doing the kucherov? especially if they keep winning like they have recently? I also fully expect them and Vegas and maybe even Kraken and Jets to do some significant deals before TDL. To say you "Can't" is an excuse not a reason. To say you "Won't, is another matter and I'd have a lot more respect if kh makes that decision (regardless of if i agree or not and yes i know KH doesn't give a S*&^t what I think)
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Post by igibb on Feb 25, 2023 9:17:18 GMT -7
The tricky thing with LTIR is you need to be right up against the cap ceiling for it to take effect. The amount of relief you get is the contract on LTIR minus the amount of cap space you have left. So say you have $2 million in cap space left and you put a player that has a $4 million dollar cap hit on LTIR you can exceed the cap by $2 million to replace him not $4 million as the contract sucks up your $2 million in cap space. So trading Klef would gain us nothing as all his relief is due to the fact we are up against the cap. We are using his LTIR for the players we already have. We would have to shed $4.16 million in cap if we traded him. It's the reason teams who have guys on career ending LTIR are always trying to get right up to the cap at the beginning of the year so they get the full value of the relief. It is tricky, but the top teams are paying guys to do the high-wire juggling act in order to make use of/trade/get secondary-tertiary teams involved etc. Eg, I would not be surprised that Landeskog stays on LTIR till playoffs so Avs have a bit more wiggle room and then he'll miraculously appear for playoffs? ie doing the kucherov? especially if they keep winning like they have recently? I also fully expect them and Vegas and maybe even Kraken and Jets to do some significant deals before TDL. To say you "Can't" is an excuse not a reason. To say you "Won't, is another matter and I'd have a lot more respect if kh makes that decision (regardless of if i agree or not and yes i know KH doesn't give a S*&^t what I think) You act like this is all happening in a vacuum that every team can do the same thing. You do realize we lose $7.1 million dollars in LTIR next year so our CURRENT roster, if it was the same, would need to shed $7.1 million just to be compliant next year. That makes a big difference when you are talking about taking on big long term contracts who seem to be the players everyone thinks we should be in on. So we have to shed 2 or 3 roster players to make it work this year who do we replace them with? We are already in emergency recall mode because we don't have enough forwards. Then next year we still lose another $7.1 million in cap space due to no LTIR. The Avs don't have more wiggle room if Landeskog stays on LTIR they are already using his LTIR space. They get him back yes, but it doesn't open up any more cap space for them than they are currently using. We could try and LTIR Kane for the rest of the season to gain his cap space. Do you trust this team to make the playoffs without him in the lineup for the rest of the season? No one has said we can't but again you don't make moves in the bubble of the next two months or what other teams have the ability to do which is how fans look at it. If the Leafs don't win this year they have mortgaged their future. We have been down that road for along time I don't want to go there again.
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Post by yuke on Feb 25, 2023 10:03:39 GMT -7
It is tricky, but the top teams are paying guys to do the high-wire juggling act in order to make use of/trade/get secondary-tertiary teams involved etc. Eg, I would not be surprised that Landeskog stays on LTIR till playoffs so Avs have a bit more wiggle room and then he'll miraculously appear for playoffs? ie doing the kucherov? especially if they keep winning like they have recently? I also fully expect them and Vegas and maybe even Kraken and Jets to do some significant deals before TDL. To say you "Can't" is an excuse not a reason. To say you "Won't, is another matter and I'd have a lot more respect if kh makes that decision (regardless of if i agree or not and yes i know KH doesn't give a S*&^t what I think) You act like this is all happening in a vacuum that every team can do the same thing. You do realize we lose $7.1 million dollars in LTIR next year so our CURRENT roster, if it was the same, would need to shed $7.1 million just to be compliant next year. That makes a big difference when you are talking about taking on big long term contracts who seem to be the players everyone thinks we should be in on. So we have to shed 2 or 3 roster players to make it work this year who do we replace them with? We are already in emergency recall mode because we don't have enough forwards. Then next year we still lose another $7.1 million in cap space due to no LTIR. The Avs don't have more wiggle room if Landeskog stays on LTIR they are already using his LTIR space. They get him back yes, but it doesn't open up any more cap space for them than they are currently using. We could try and LTIR Kane for the rest of the season to gain his cap space. Do you trust this team to make the playoffs without him in the lineup for the rest of the season? No one has said we can't but again you don't make moves in the bubble of the next two months or what other teams have the ability to do which is how fans look at it. If the Leafs don't win this year they have mortgaged their future. We have been down that road for along time I don't want to go there again. Thus is new to me, I don't think your math is right. Can you provide some documentation on this.
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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 25, 2023 12:22:08 GMT -7
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Post by igibb on Feb 25, 2023 17:58:30 GMT -7
You act like this is all happening in a vacuum that every team can do the same thing. You do realize we lose $7.1 million dollars in LTIR next year so our CURRENT roster, if it was the same, would need to shed $7.1 million just to be compliant next year. That makes a big difference when you are talking about taking on big long term contracts who seem to be the players everyone thinks we should be in on. So we have to shed 2 or 3 roster players to make it work this year who do we replace them with? We are already in emergency recall mode because we don't have enough forwards. Then next year we still lose another $7.1 million in cap space due to no LTIR. The Avs don't have more wiggle room if Landeskog stays on LTIR they are already using his LTIR space. They get him back yes, but it doesn't open up any more cap space for them than they are currently using. We could try and LTIR Kane for the rest of the season to gain his cap space. Do you trust this team to make the playoffs without him in the lineup for the rest of the season? No one has said we can't but again you don't make moves in the bubble of the next two months or what other teams have the ability to do which is how fans look at it. If the Leafs don't win this year they have mortgaged their future. We have been down that road for along time I don't want to go there again. Thus is new to me, I don't think your math is right. Can you provide some documentation on this. You are correct I was still thinking of the trade Klef for cap space thing and confused myself. LOL
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Post by drtaf on Feb 25, 2023 22:17:26 GMT -7
You act like this is all happening in a vacuum that every team can do the same thing. You do realize we lose $7.1 million dollars in LTIR next year so our CURRENT roster, if it was the same, would need to shed $7.1 million just to be compliant next year. That makes a big difference when you are talking about taking on big long term contracts who seem to be the players everyone thinks we should be in on. So we have to shed 2 or 3 roster players to make it work this year who do we replace them with? We are already in emergency recall mode because we don't have enough forwards. Then next year we still lose another $7.1 million in cap space due to no LTIR. The Avs don't have more wiggle room if Landeskog stays on LTIR they are already using his LTIR space. They get him back yes, but it doesn't open up any more cap space for them than they are currently using. We could try and LTIR Kane for the rest of the season to gain his cap space. Do you trust this team to make the playoffs without him in the lineup for the rest of the season? No one has said we can't but again you don't make moves in the bubble of the next two months or what other teams have the ability to do which is how fans look at it. If the Leafs don't win this year they have mortgaged their future. We have been down that road for along time I don't want to go there again. Thus is new to me, I don't think your math is right. Can you provide some documentation on this. I can't remember where we've ever "mortgaged" our future at anytime? We've had shiite drafting and even shiitier trades for a decade or more but we've never given up most or all of our picks to take a run at everything? the closest was when KH gave up 2 2nds and 3rd for AA and green a few years back? Rheinhart also comes to mind but I'd label/file both of those under "incredibly misinformed stupid trades" rather than "mortgaging the future"?
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Post by windsoroiler on Feb 25, 2023 22:31:59 GMT -7
Thus is new to me, I don't think your math is right. Can you provide some documentation on this. I can't remember where we've ever "mortgaged" our future at anytime? We've had shiite drafting and even shiitier trades for a decade or more but we've never given up most or all of our picks to take a run at everything? the closest was when KH gave up 2 2nds and 3rd for AA and green a few years back? Rheinhart also comes to mind but I'd label/file both of those under "incredibly misinformed stupid trades" rather than "mortgaging the future"? A good trade is what jets did today. Neidereider, a consistent rw 20 goal scorer that is under contract for this and next year at around pulj 3 million salary. What did it cost them? A 2nd round pick.
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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 25, 2023 22:33:29 GMT -7
Thus is new to me, I don't think your math is right. Can you provide some documentation on this. I can't remember where we've ever "mortgaged" our future at anytime? We've had shiite drafting and even shiitier trades for a decade or more but we've never given up most or all of our picks to take a run at everything? the closest was when KH gave up 2 2nds and 3rd for AA and green a few years back? Rheinhart also comes to mind but I'd label/file both of those under "incredibly misinformed stupid trades" rather than "mortgaging the future"? The offer sheet that resulted in a 1st 2nd and 3d for Dustin Penner was another one. Going pretty far into the past for that one though
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Post by drtaf on Feb 26, 2023 17:12:59 GMT -7
I can't remember where we've ever "mortgaged" our future at anytime? We've had shiite drafting and even shiitier trades for a decade or more but we've never given up most or all of our picks to take a run at everything? the closest was when KH gave up 2 2nds and 3rd for AA and green a few years back? Rheinhart also comes to mind but I'd label/file both of those under "incredibly misinformed stupid trades" rather than "mortgaging the future"? A good trade is what jets did today. Neidereider, a consistent rw 20 goal scorer that is under contract for this and next year at around pulj 3 million salary. What did it cost them? A 2nd round pick. TBH I'm impressed with the mental gymnastics some are doing to justify KH's inactivity, all the while 1-by-1, playoff teams tight against the cap, still make trades and 1-by-1 the difference makers are getting snapped up? There's still time to make a "difference maker move" but pretty soon only scraps will be left and I dare say KH will make at least a "scrappy" move before TDL, but will it be enough? We'll only really find out when the season officially ends for us, but whatever that ending becomes, should undoubtedly determine whether KH gets another crack with our dynamic duo. My gut says we've already left it too late, but my gut also says that I shouldn't bet against McDrai to pull this team kicking and screaming into the conf finals. Problem is, should KH be the one rewarded for that??
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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 26, 2023 18:10:36 GMT -7
Jeannot?
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Post by drtaf on Feb 26, 2023 18:20:20 GMT -7
heard he's been left out for trade reasons, meanwhile Timo becomes a devil (Not that I felt we had a hope in hell of landing him) cost hasnt been posted yet
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Post by toley on Feb 26, 2023 18:20:57 GMT -7
A good trade is what jets did today. Neidereider, a consistent rw 20 goal scorer that is under contract for this and next year at around pulj 3 million salary. What did it cost them? A 2nd round pick. TBH I'm impressed with the mental gymnastics some are doing to justify KH's inactivity, all the while 1-by-1, playoff teams tight against the cap, still make trades and 1-by-1 the difference makers are getting snapped up? There's still time to make a "difference maker move" but pretty soon only scraps will be left and I dare say KH will make at least a "scrappy" move before TDL, but will it be enough? We'll only really find out when the season officially ends for us, but whatever that ending becomes, should undoubtedly determine whether KH gets another crack with our dynamic duo. My gut says we've already left it too late, but my gut also says that I shouldn't bet against McDrai to pull this team kicking and screaming into the conf finals. Problem is, should KH be the one rewarded for that?? I think the plan the whole time, was to pick up the scraps, -middle 6 center -and a second pair LHD(Kulak upgrade) What do you define as "inactivity"? Not making a move or not making a sexy move? Cause he's obviously making calls and talk to other teams, as per Frank Seravalli. Holland has never made a big splash at Trade Deadline, even while in Detroit, so maybe lower expectations just a hair. 🤏 He makes bigger move in the summer.
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Post by drtaf on Feb 26, 2023 18:22:23 GMT -7
heard he's been left out for trade reasons, meanwhile Timo becomes a devil (Not that I felt we had a hope in hell of landing him) cost hasnt been posted yet Sounds like a lot of folks in on Jeannot
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Post by drtaf on Feb 26, 2023 18:28:36 GMT -7
TBH I'm impressed with the mental gymnastics some are doing to justify KH's inactivity, all the while 1-by-1, playoff teams tight against the cap, still make trades and 1-by-1 the difference makers are getting snapped up? There's still time to make a "difference maker move" but pretty soon only scraps will be left and I dare say KH will make at least a "scrappy" move before TDL, but will it be enough? We'll only really find out when the season officially ends for us, but whatever that ending becomes, should undoubtedly determine whether KH gets another crack with our dynamic duo. My gut says we've already left it too late, but my gut also says that I shouldn't bet against McDrai to pull this team kicking and screaming into the conf finals. Problem is, should KH be the one rewarded for that?? I think the plan the whole time, was to pick up the scraps, -middle 6 center -and a second pair LHD(Kulak upgrade) What do you define as "inactivity"? Not making a move or not making a sexy move? Cause he's obviously making calls and talk to other teams, as per Frank Seravalli. Holland has never made a big splash at Trade Deadline, even while in Detroit, so made lower expectations just a hair. 🤏 He makes bigger move in the summer. I no longer have expectations Toley Like KH, I'll sit back, maybe pick up my phone and watch whats been happening on the trade wire (hopefully he's a little closer than i am on twitter) and we'll see what happens? However, if he thinks he can wait till summer or nibble on some scraps and this team bows out in round 1 or gulp! Not make the dance, It wont be his problem to fix anymore and I'll be ok with that too
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Post by Bronco73 on Feb 26, 2023 18:38:27 GMT -7
heard he's been left out for trade reasons, meanwhile Timo becomes a devil (Not that I felt we had a hope in hell of landing him) cost hasnt been posted yet yup another one gone. Jack Johnson just got traded from COL to CHI
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