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Post by igibb on Aug 16, 2024 9:13:20 GMT -7
KH could have avoided all this by trading Broberg back in November when he asked. He's never rescinded the request btw. Holloway I could take or leave at that price. But he would have gotten the exact same return at that point so who cares if it happens this way or had happened through a trade 8 months ago other than those looking to complain about management. We would have saved some money on Holloway I guess but he is not some irreplicable cog that is a major loss anyways. In Broberg's case an unproven, disgruntled player who has not been able to crack the line up of a team that has a middling D is not bringing the massive return everyone is acting like we would have gotten had he been traded.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 16, 2024 9:23:39 GMT -7
Maybe i misunderstood what friedman said in his podcast but he distinctly said that Armstrong waited until now so that it would maximise the difficulty for the oilers to match and that if he had tried to do this sooner then the oilers could have had other options, including trades that would/could also create another 48hr buyout window?? So by trade i thought he meant they could trade them up until that point and maybe that's not the case? It still doesn't negate the fact that the oilers had almost an entire year to sort this out and didn't? Go ahead and defend the management who get paid millions to supposedly make sure these things dont happen? Every team in the league has what they consider top prospects, including the teams who are contenders and as tight to the cap as we are, yet i dont see them getting ripped off for pennies on the dollar with offer sheets flying in? why? Because they sort their business out either by signing them or trading them before this happens? To be brutally honest, Broberg and holloway are nowhere near "top prospects" in this league, but they do just happen to be some of the best ones out there freely available to be offer sheeted? As for the cap hell we are in that created this scenario? I guess that's not management's fault either? The poor babies our doing the best they can and maths can be a hard subject, its not their fault! You can't trade a player you don't have signed and as soon as June 30 rolled around they were no longer signed. It is why teams have to qualify them the day after the draft because if they don't the players become UFA's because they have no contract. Really no other teams have good unsigned RFA's? Jeremy Swayman, Seth Jarvis, Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Matthew Beniers, Cole Perfetti are all still unsigned RFA's and all are worth a hell of a lot more than either Broberg or Holloway guess those teams have terrible management as well? There are 10 guys on the list of unsigned RFA's who had more points last year than Holloway has in his career. Must be a lot of bad management out there. You kinda gave your own explanation as to why they havent been offer sheeted? They are all way more valuable than Broberg or Holloway and hence would require considerably more compensation so those teams dont have to fear an offersheet because every one of those teams would do handstands if their RFA signed an offer sheet for $4.5M, so there's really no comparison there except mayyybbbeee Perfetti?  This also proves my point that over-ripening is a stupid concept. Why are those RFAs worth so much more than broberg and Holloway?? IDK, maybe because they were brought up faster, established into their squads a lot quicker and have now totally proven themselves to be extremely valuable parts of their respective teams. So keep making excuses for management, but they either Kuzmenkoed up by not developing them properly, or they shouldve got them signed sooner, take your pick? There's always a combo of things that usually culminate in a major F'up and in this case, its a combo of having zero cap, players developed too slowly/poorly and management ignoring the possibility that an offer sheet could be forthcoming because their rookies are in that perfect "offersheet space" of not being worth a $5M+++ salary and hence requiring multiple picks involving 1st's+++, but showing just enough to be worth rolling the dice on with a "nothing gamble" of a $4M+ offer that only requires a 2nd compensation, but stuffs the oilers into a real deep hole? if Broberg was anywhere near Seider's, jarvis or swaymans development arc, SB would be sending Manila envelopes to STl thanking them for the offer, but that would never happen would it? because those guys are worth north of $7M which puts compensation at 2x 1st++ which no team would even consider offersheeting and no team would consider not matching
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Post by drtaf on Aug 16, 2024 9:43:23 GMT -7
KH could have avoided all this by trading Broberg back in November when he asked. He's never rescinded the request btw. Holloway I could take or leave at that price. But he would have gotten the exact same return at that point so who cares if it happens this way or had happened through a trade 8 months ago other than those looking to complain about management. We would have saved some money on Holloway I guess but he is not some irreplicable cog that is a major loss anyways. In Broberg's case an unproven, disgruntled player who has not been able to crack the line up of a team that has a middling D is not bringing the massive return everyone is acting like we would have gotten had he been traded. TBF no one knows what Broberg would have gotten in a trade? the latest rumour du jour is that STL themselves wanted broberg and Holloway when oilers went sniffing for Buchnevich? Would a deal like that have been the missing piece to a cup? is that an overpay/under pay? It's also becoming clearer that Broberg was very unhappy with how he was treated/developed and no doubt has led to him "jumping" on the offer sheet when he knows he was only getting a max $1.8M from us? I can agree that letting them both walk isn't going to put any major dent in our "win now" window, whereas forking out almost $7M in cap almost certainly would? so I'm in the camp of letting them both walk because the future is now. However, whether you call it "mismanagement" "mistakes were made", or whatever, I at least hope that our new management team learn from this? Our record of creating "home grown talent" is not great and if we end up letting the ones we do develop, walk out the door, then that compounds the problem and has lead to our extremely poor prospect pool. i heard an interesting stat that if we do let these 2 walk then not 1 single 1st rnd draft pick of KH's (5) is left in our system? that's ok if they've been used to bring in good NHLers like EKholm, but if they end up been exchanged for lower round picks, its not a sustainable development model, especially as our scouting doesnt appear to be up near the top?
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Post by yuke on Aug 16, 2024 10:18:02 GMT -7
But he would have gotten the exact same return at that point so who cares if it happens this way or had happened through a trade 8 months ago other than those looking to complain about management. We would have saved some money on Holloway I guess but he is not some irreplicable cog that is a major loss anyways. In Broberg's case an unproven, disgruntled player who has not been able to crack the line up of a team that has a middling D is not bringing the massive return everyone is acting like we would have gotten had he been traded. TBF no one knows what Broberg would have gotten in a trade? the latest rumour du jour is that STL themselves wanted broberg and Holloway when oilers went sniffing for Buchnevich? Would a deal like that have been the missing piece to a cup? is that an overpay/under pay? It's also becoming clearer that Broberg was very unhappy with how he was treated/developed and no doubt has led to him "jumping" on the offer sheet when he knows he was only getting a max $1.8M from us? I can agree that letting them both walk isn't going to put any major dent in our "win now" window, whereas forking out almost $7M in cap almost certainly would? so I'm in the camp of letting them both walk because the future is now. However, whether you call it "mismanagement" "mistakes were made", or whatever, I at least hope that our new management team learn from this? Our record of creating "home grown talent" is not great and if we end up letting the ones we do develop, walk out the door, then that compounds the problem and has lead to our extremely poor prospect pool. i heard an interesting stat that if we do let these 2 walk then not 1 single 1st rnd draft pick of KH's (5) is left in our system? that's ok if they've been used to bring in good NHLers like EKholm, but if they end up been exchanged for lower round picks, its not a sustainable development model, especially as our scouting doesnt appear to be up near the top? Drtaf, I wish you were my manager, If I ever had an incident on my site it would be your fault. Blame it on training, not giving us enough time off, poor ppe, whatever it maybe you would get the blame. Lol. Enough kidding aside. 2 firsts for Elholm, 1 for Henrique. All good when going for broke. 60% win rate, not bad and the other 40% is still unknown. |
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Post by happyhappy on Aug 16, 2024 10:33:57 GMT -7
Captain Connor stated last year something like "if you don't want to be here, then go" and maybe this was/is the case with Broberg. In the same breath, Phillip was at McD's wedding so clearly they are buds. I don't fault either him or Hollywood for going for the money. I'm in the "keep them both" camp, if they want to be here, if not, see ya and good luck in St. Louis to them both. I don't want to see all that time spent on development on these young guys that may be ready to pop sooner then later (already showing signs), thrown out the window all for nothing though. Match the offer. Kane to LTIR. Send a couple older expendable players on waivers ie: Perry/Ryan/J.Brown/Stetcher to clear space and become compliant. I wouldn't cry to have any of these guys picked up anyway. Everybody stays. Win now. Win tomorrow. Keep our youth. IMO.  |
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Post by fogolin2 on Aug 16, 2024 10:40:43 GMT -7
But he would have gotten the exact same return at that point so who cares if it happens this way or had happened through a trade 8 months ago other than those looking to complain about management. We would have saved some money on Holloway I guess but he is not some irreplicable cog that is a major loss anyways. In Broberg's case an unproven, disgruntled player who has not been able to crack the line up of a team that has a middling D is not bringing the massive return everyone is acting like we would have gotten had he been traded. TBF no one knows what Broberg would have gotten in a trade? the latest rumour du jour is that STL themselves wanted broberg and Holloway when oilers went sniffing for Buchnevich? Would a deal like that have been the missing piece to a cup? is that an overpay/under pay? It's also becoming clearer that Broberg was very unhappy with how he was treated/developed and no doubt has led to him "jumping" on the offer sheet when he knows he was only getting a max $1.8M from us? I can agree that letting them both walk isn't going to put any major dent in our "win now" window, whereas forking out almost $7M in cap almost certainly would? so I'm in the camp of letting them both walk because the future is now. However, whether you call it "mismanagement" "mistakes were made", or whatever, I at least hope that our new management team learn from this? Our record of creating "home grown talent" is not great and if we end up letting the ones we do develop, walk out the door, then that compounds the problem and has lead to our extremely poor prospect pool. i heard an interesting stat that if we do let these 2 walk then not 1 single 1st rnd draft pick of KH's (5) is left in our system? that's ok if they've been used to bring in good NHLers like EKholm, but if they end up been exchanged for lower round picks, its not a sustainable development model, especially as our scouting doesnt appear to be up near the top? 25% of first round don't make it to 100gp in the league. The later the pick, and that percentage is much higher. Am I happy with the situation? No. Are Holloway and Broberg both good draft picks? Yes. The fact that our icetime and cap is gobled up by better players isn't a problem. We spent many years being a farm team.
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 16, 2024 11:01:31 GMT -7
Captain Connor stated last year something like "if you don't want to be here, then go" and maybe this was/is the case with Broberg. In the same breath, Phillip was at McD's wedding so clearly they are buds. I don't fault either him or Hollywood for going for the money. I'm in the "keep them both" camp, if they want to be here, if not, see ya and good luck in St. Louis to them both. I don't want to see all that time spent on development on these young guys that may be ready to pop sooner then later (already showing signs), thrown out the window all for nothing though. Match the offer. Kane to LTIR. Send a couple older expendable players on waivers ie: Perry/Ryan/J.Brown/Stetcher to clear space and become compliant. I wouldn't cry to have any of these guys picked up anyway. Everybody stays. Win now. Win tomorrow. Keep our youth. IMO. If Kane to LTIR is for sure, great. Then you look at how long it will be. If only til Nov/Dec before he can be traded in March then this is not the answer and you kinda have to let them walk. This move is calculated by the Blues on many fronts. There's plenty of very good unsigned RFAs, they targeted not 1 but 2 of ours. We made our bed, sleep in it.
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Post by igibb on Aug 16, 2024 11:06:20 GMT -7
You can't trade a player you don't have signed and as soon as June 30 rolled around they were no longer signed. It is why teams have to qualify them the day after the draft because if they don't the players become UFA's because they have no contract. Really no other teams have good unsigned RFA's? Jeremy Swayman, Seth Jarvis, Lucas Raymond, Moritz Seider, Matthew Beniers, Cole Perfetti are all still unsigned RFA's and all are worth a hell of a lot more than either Broberg or Holloway guess those teams have terrible management as well? There are 10 guys on the list of unsigned RFA's who had more points last year than Holloway has in his career. Must be a lot of bad management out there. You kinda gave your own explanation as to why they havent been offer sheeted? They are all way more valuable than Broberg or Holloway and hence would require considerably more compensation so those teams dont have to fear an offersheet because every one of those teams would do handstands if their RFA signed an offer sheet for $4.5M, so there's really no comparison there except mayyybbbeee Perfetti? This also proves my point that over-ripening is a stupid concept. Why are those RFAs worth so much more than broberg and Holloway?? IDK, maybe because they were brought up faster, established into their squads a lot quicker and have now totally proven themselves to be extremely valuable parts of their respective teams. So keep making excuses for management, but they either Kuzmenkoed up by not developing them properly, or they shouldve got them signed sooner, take your pick? There's always a combo of things that usually culminate in a major F'up and in this case, its a combo of having zero cap, players developed too slowly/poorly and management ignoring the possibility that an offer sheet could be forthcoming because their rookies are in that perfect "offersheet space" of not being worth a $5M+++ salary and hence requiring multiple picks involving 1st's+++, but showing just enough to be worth rolling the dice on with a "nothing gamble" of a $4M+ offer that only requires a 2nd compensation, but stuffs the oilers into a real deep hole? if Broberg was anywhere near Seider's, jarvis or swaymans development arc, SB would be sending Manila envelopes to STl thanking them for the offer, but that would never happen would it? because those guys are worth north of $7M which puts compensation at 2x 1st++ which no team would even consider offersheeting and no team would consider not matching The last 4 offer sheets have been $6.1M, $8.4M, $5M and $7.85M so your theory that teams don't offer sheet players that are going to cost high returns or will get matched doesn't actually hold water. The last player offer sheeted for under $5m was 14 years ago. Fringe NHLer's don't get offer sheeted any more frequently than stars do.
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Post by happyhappy on Aug 16, 2024 11:11:19 GMT -7
Captain Connor stated last year something like "if you don't want to be here, then go" and maybe this was/is the case with Broberg. In the same breath, Phillip was at McD's wedding so clearly they are buds. I don't fault either him or Hollywood for going for the money. I'm in the "keep them both" camp, if they want to be here, if not, see ya and good luck in St. Louis to them both. I don't want to see all that time spent on development on these young guys that may be ready to pop sooner then later (already showing signs), thrown out the window all for nothing though. Match the offer. Kane to LTIR. Send a couple older expendable players on waivers ie: Perry/Ryan/J.Brown/Stetcher to clear space and become compliant. I wouldn't cry to have any of these guys picked up anyway. Everybody stays. Win now. Win tomorrow. Keep our youth. IMO. If Kane to LTIR is for sure, great. Then you look at how long it will be. If only til Nov/Dec before he can be traded in March then this is not the answer and you kinda have to let them walk. This move is calculated by the Blues on many fronts. There's plenty of very good unsigned RFAs, they targeted not 1 but 2 of ours. We made our bed, sleep in it. Sounds like it will be much longer than a couple of months. Find the right doc and wait till March to trade if necessary.  We can also calculate or own moves too, in not so sneaky fashion.
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Post by igibb on Aug 16, 2024 11:35:17 GMT -7
Captain Connor stated last year something like "if you don't want to be here, then go" and maybe this was/is the case with Broberg. In the same breath, Phillip was at McD's wedding so clearly they are buds. I don't fault either him or Hollywood for going for the money. I'm in the "keep them both" camp, if they want to be here, if not, see ya and good luck in St. Louis to them both. I don't want to see all that time spent on development on these young guys that may be ready to pop sooner then later (already showing signs), thrown out the window all for nothing though. Match the offer. Kane to LTIR. Send a couple older expendable players on waivers ie: Perry/Ryan/J.Brown/Stetcher to clear space and become compliant. I wouldn't cry to have any of these guys picked up anyway. Everybody stays. Win now. Win tomorrow. Keep our youth. IMO. If Kane to LTIR is for sure, great. Then you look at how long it will be. If only til Nov/Dec before he can be traded in March then this is not the answer and you kinda have to let them walk. This move is calculated by the Blues on many fronts. There's plenty of very good unsigned RFAs, they targeted not 1 but 2 of ours. We made our bed, sleep in it. It sounds like Kane will almost definitely start the season on LTIR. It was reported they are looking for a surgeon to do whatever the surgery is currently. How long he is on LTIR? Who knows but it buys time to make a trade. I would call the Blues bluff (I still don't think they really are super intereseted in Holloway and are just using him to make it more difficult on the Oilers) and match Broberg and let them have Holloway and see if he can stay healthy long enough to be worth $2.2 m of your cap space. Replace Holloway with Savoie. Work on trades while he is on LTIR and who knows maybe someone else gets hurt and has to be put on LTIR. Obviously don't want that but chances are high someone will. Vegas plays the revolving LTIR game no reason we can't as well if there are injuries.
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 16, 2024 12:13:10 GMT -7
If Kane to LTIR is for sure, great. Then you look at how long it will be. If only til Nov/Dec before he can be traded in March then this is not the answer and you kinda have to let them walk. This move is calculated by the Blues on many fronts. There's plenty of very good unsigned RFAs, they targeted not 1 but 2 of ours. We made our bed, sleep in it. It sounds like Kane will almost definitely start the season on LTIR. It was reported they are looking for a surgeon to do whatever the surgery is currently. How long he is on LTIR? Who knows but it buys time to make a trade. I would call the Blues bluff (I still don't think they really are super intereseted in Holloway and are just using him to make it more difficult on the Oilers) and match Broberg and let them have Holloway and see if he can stay healthy long enough to be worth $2.2 m of your cap space. Replace Holloway with Savoie. Work on trades while he is on LTIR and who knows maybe someone else gets hurt and has to be put on LTIR. Obviously don't want that but chances are high someone will. Vegas plays the revolving LTIR game no reason we can't as well if there are injuries. Hard to argue with all of that thinking. I dunno, want to create banter since it's the offseason and have some fun. Hard to shoot down this thinking. But buying time is not the answer, it helps but this IMO is not the right solution in our best chance at a cup year. What is our best chance? Replace these young players with vets? This helps us now but not in the future. Either way Broberg would be a near 5 mil player moving forward. Hard to justify.
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Post by igibb on Aug 16, 2024 12:43:24 GMT -7
It sounds like Kane will almost definitely start the season on LTIR. It was reported they are looking for a surgeon to do whatever the surgery is currently. How long he is on LTIR? Who knows but it buys time to make a trade. I would call the Blues bluff (I still don't think they really are super intereseted in Holloway and are just using him to make it more difficult on the Oilers) and match Broberg and let them have Holloway and see if he can stay healthy long enough to be worth $2.2 m of your cap space. Replace Holloway with Savoie. Work on trades while he is on LTIR and who knows maybe someone else gets hurt and has to be put on LTIR. Obviously don't want that but chances are high someone will. Vegas plays the revolving LTIR game no reason we can't as well if there are injuries. Hard to argue with all of that thinking. I dunno, want to create banter since it's the offseason and have some fun. Hard to shoot down this thinking. But buying time is not the answer, it helps but this IMO is not the right solution in our best chance at a cup year. What is our best chance? Replace these young players with vets? This helps us now but not in the future. Either way Broberg would be a near 5 mil player moving forward. Hard to justify. Hard to argue that we are too old and slow if we let young players go and then talk about replace our young fast guys with aging vets who is what you get for the $1M a year we want to pay guys. IMO if he turns into a solid top 4 guy he will be pretty easy to justify $5m for in 2 years. If he doesn't you let him walk. One has to remember we currently have one D man (Nurse) under contract when Brobergs contract comes due again and other than Bouch none should be resigned for big dollar contracts if resigned at all.
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Post by mrtea on Aug 16, 2024 12:45:29 GMT -7
At the moment there is no right or wrong move because there are pros and cons for both decisions. It's a gamble on how well we can predict what kind of players they will be in the future. If we keep them we are betting that they will be game changers when they are fully mature. Vice versa, if we let them go for the picks we are betting that they won't be that hard to replace.
I'm just waiting to see which way we go and then later to see if that was the right decision.
There is one other thing to consider with this situation and it is if we were to match, "how does it affect the Bouchard signing"? To me this has very little bearing on the Draisaitl situation because that will be done soon from all the evidence, but it might affect the Bouchard contract by tightening the money even more. If this is the case then I say let them walk because signing Bouchard next has to be the organizations biggest challenge. I think signing Bouchard is just as important if not more so than Draisaitl's contract. Bouchard is the Oilers defensive Power Play specialist that is one of the very best in the league. If in any way matching these offer sheets affects Bouchard's contract, then I say let them walk. This may be the real motive behind the Blues offer sheeting two of our players now, trying to possibly shake loose a guy like Bouchard if we match. Now that would be calculating.
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Post by drtaf on Aug 16, 2024 14:53:52 GMT -7
TBF no one knows what Broberg would have gotten in a trade? the latest rumour du jour is that STL themselves wanted broberg and Holloway when oilers went sniffing for Buchnevich? Would a deal like that have been the missing piece to a cup? is that an overpay/under pay? It's also becoming clearer that Broberg was very unhappy with how he was treated/developed and no doubt has led to him "jumping" on the offer sheet when he knows he was only getting a max $1.8M from us? I can agree that letting them both walk isn't going to put any major dent in our "win now" window, whereas forking out almost $7M in cap almost certainly would? so I'm in the camp of letting them both walk because the future is now. However, whether you call it "mismanagement" "mistakes were made", or whatever, I at least hope that our new management team learn from this? Our record of creating "home grown talent" is not great and if we end up letting the ones we do develop, walk out the door, then that compounds the problem and has lead to our extremely poor prospect pool. i heard an interesting stat that if we do let these 2 walk then not 1 single 1st rnd draft pick of KH's (5) is left in our system? that's ok if they've been used to bring in good NHLers like EKholm, but if they end up been exchanged for lower round picks, its not a sustainable development model, especially as our scouting doesnt appear to be up near the top? Drtaf, I wish you were my manager, If I ever had an incident on my site it would be your fault. Blame it on training, not giving us enough time off, poor ppe, whatever it maybe you would get the blame. Lol. Enough kidding aside. 2 firsts for Elholm, 1 for Henrique. All good when going for broke. 60% win rate, not bad and the other 40% is still unknown. In my world Yuke, the boss is always usually the one to take the hit as its understood that's where the buck stops (and i dont make anywhere near 7 figures either)  To me this one's a little strange because there's enough juice out there to say confidently that the org wanted these 2 signed before TDL? If the prevailing rumours are true that they and in particular broberg, did not want to sign or even be in the org anymore then a trade at or before TDL would have seemed to be in order?? KH would likely have got flak for that as well, but as i said before, he's always been really upfront about his decisions and if he comes out and says he traded broberg cos he didn't want to sign or be here anymore, then there's not a lot to argue about? Something just doesn't quite add up, be it an f'up, bad luck, or the perfect storm of variables and happenstance or whatever this is? the end result is we either lose 2 promising payers for pennies on the dollar or we substantially overpay them? that's lose lose in anyone's language and yeah if you are going to blame someone i think its logical to point the finger at management (and i've repeatedly said that doesn't necessarily mean KH is the guy to blame as I and very few people really know how it got to this point)?? The players certainly can't be blamed for hitting the proverbial jackpot?
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Post by windsoroiler on Aug 16, 2024 16:04:06 GMT -7
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Post by toley on Aug 16, 2024 19:44:56 GMT -7
You kinda gave your own explanation as to why they havent been offer sheeted? They are all way more valuable than Broberg or Holloway and hence would require considerably more compensation so those teams dont have to fear an offersheet because every one of those teams would do handstands if their RFA signed an offer sheet for $4.5M, so there's really no comparison there except mayyybbbeee Perfetti? This also proves my point that over-ripening is a stupid concept. Why are those RFAs worth so much more than broberg and Holloway?? IDK, maybe because they were brought up faster, established into their squads a lot quicker and have now totally proven themselves to be extremely valuable parts of their respective teams. So keep making excuses for management, but they either Kuzmenkoed up by not developing them properly, or they shouldve got them signed sooner, take your pick? There's always a combo of things that usually culminate in a major F'up and in this case, its a combo of having zero cap, players developed too slowly/poorly and management ignoring the possibility that an offer sheet could be forthcoming because their rookies are in that perfect "offersheet space" of not being worth a $5M+++ salary and hence requiring multiple picks involving 1st's+++, but showing just enough to be worth rolling the dice on with a "nothing gamble" of a $4M+ offer that only requires a 2nd compensation, but stuffs the oilers into a real deep hole? if Broberg was anywhere near Seider's, jarvis or swaymans development arc, SB would be sending Manila envelopes to STl thanking them for the offer, but that would never happen would it? because those guys are worth north of $7M which puts compensation at 2x 1st++ which no team would even consider offersheeting and no team would consider not matching The last 4 offer sheets have been $6.1M, $8.4M, $5M and $7.85M so your theory that teams don't offer sheet players that are going to cost high returns or will get matched doesn't actually hold water. The last player offer sheeted for under $5m was 14 years ago. Fringe NHLer's don't get offer sheeted any more frequently than stars do. It's situational based, the team offer sheeting has to have the assets needed, their own 1sts, their own 2nd. They'll also need the cap space to be able to obtain the player. Teams are strategical when doing it. They have to weigh, the player to the offer. Usually the offer sheet is an over pay. If another team comes and offer sheets any of the players list in the previous post, the team with their rights, matches, and would be seen as a clear move by the offer sheeting team to up a price, on a players contract.(E.g the Aho Offer sheet) |
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Post by drtaf on Aug 17, 2024 8:42:49 GMT -7
The last 4 offer sheets have been $6.1M, $8.4M, $5M and $7.85M so your theory that teams don't offer sheet players that are going to cost high returns or will get matched doesn't actually hold water. The last player offer sheeted for under $5m was 14 years ago. Fringe NHLer's don't get offer sheeted any more frequently than stars do. It's situational based, the team offer sheeting has to have the assets needed, their own 1sts, their own 2nd. They'll also need the cap space to be able to obtain the player. Teams are strategical when doing it. They have to weigh, the player to the offer. Usually the offer sheet is an over pay. If another team comes and offer sheets any of the players list in the previous post, the team with their rights, matches, and would be seen as a clear move by the offer sheeting team to up a price, on a players contract.(E.g the Aho Offer sheet) The cap has also recently been very flat, so with the exception of Kotmaniemi, all the others were offered when the cap rose progressively and that factors in when going after a star player with a massive offer sheet (I read the snet article too);-). saying that, holy F did we dodge an ICBM when buffalo matched our vanek Offer!! If they hadnt, we'd have given up 4 1sts inc 2 FOA. those picks turned into Eberle, Paajarvi (maybe they take tkachuk), Hall, RNH!! 
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Post by toley on Aug 17, 2024 10:22:13 GMT -7
It's situational based, the team offer sheeting has to have the assets needed, their own 1sts, their own 2nd. They'll also need the cap space to be able to obtain the player. Teams are strategical when doing it. They have to weigh, the player to the offer. Usually the offer sheet is an over pay. If another team comes and offer sheets any of the players list in the previous post, the team with their rights, matches, and would be seen as a clear move by the offer sheeting team to up a price, on a players contract.(E.g the Aho Offer sheet) The cap has also recently been very flat, so with the exception of Kotmaniemi, all the others were offered when the cap rose progressively and that factors in when going after a star player with a massive offer sheet (I read the snet article too);-). saying that, holy F did we dodge an ICBM when buffalo matched our vanek Offer!! If they hadnt, we'd have given up 4 1sts inc 2 FOA. those picks turned into Eberle, Paajarvi (maybe they take tkachuk), Hall, RNH!! Who knows what Vanek's trajectory would have been with the Oilers. Kotkaniemi was a strike back, I'm not sure if they intended to get him. It was the first time since Offer sheeting Dustin Penner, that an Offer Sheet went through. Most teams match. PS, They wouldn't have taken Tkachuk, he would have been 11. Magnus Pääjärvi-Svensson, not Jesse Puljujarvi. |
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Post by drtaf on Aug 17, 2024 17:14:56 GMT -7
lol puljajarvi not paajarvi idk if that was autocorrect but yeah who knows what they would’ve picked.? Hall and rnh were pretty much consensus though. Looking back on all the ones that got matched though, most didn’t turn out so great, even the ones that seemed can’t miss. Makes me think even more we should just let them walk, especially Broberg (and I’m a big fan of Broberg). I think matching Holloway would be easy to do providing sb and knobby feel he'll out perform the vets occupying 3-4th lines
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Post by happyhappy on Aug 18, 2024 16:23:58 GMT -7
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This also proves my point that over-ripening is a stupid concept. Why are those RFAs worth so much more than broberg and Holloway?? IDK, maybe because they were brought up faster, established into their squads a lot quicker and have now totally proven themselves to be extremely valuable parts of their respective teams. So keep making excuses for management, but they either Kuzmenkoed up by not developing them properly, or they shouldve got them signed sooner, take your pick? There's always a combo of things that usually culminate in a major F'up and in this case, its a combo of having zero cap, players developed too slowly/poorly and management ignoring the possibility that an offer sheet could be forthcoming because their rookies are in that perfect "offersheet space" of not being worth a $5M+++ salary and hence requiring multiple picks involving 1st's+++, but showing just enough to be worth rolling the dice on with a "nothing gamble" of a $4M+ offer that only requires a 2nd compensation, but stuffs the oilers into a real deep hole? if Broberg was anywhere near Seider's, jarvis or swaymans development arc, SB would be sending Manila envelopes to STl thanking them for the offer, but that would never happen would it? because those guys are worth north of $7M which puts compensation at 2x 1st++ which no team would even consider offersheeting and no team would consider not matching
We can also calculate or own moves too, in not so sneaky fashion. 
To me this one's a little strange because there's enough juice out there to say confidently that the org wanted these 2 signed before TDL? If the prevailing rumours are true that they and in particular broberg, did not want to sign or even be in the org anymore then a trade at or before TDL would have seemed to be in order?? KH would likely have got flak for that as well, but as i said before, he's always been really upfront about his decisions and if he comes out and says he traded broberg cos he didn't want to sign or be here anymore, then there's not a lot to argue about? Something just doesn't quite add up, be it an f'up, bad luck, or the perfect storm of variables and happenstance or whatever this is? the end result is we either lose 2 promising payers for pennies on the dollar or we substantially overpay them? that's lose lose in anyone's language and yeah if you are going to blame someone i think its logical to point the finger at management (and i've repeatedly said that doesn't necessarily mean KH is the guy to blame as I and very few people really know how it got to this point)?? The players certainly can't be blamed for hitting the proverbial jackpot?
