|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 10:08:41 GMT -7
You guys would make good assistant coaches to Tipp as he obviously thinks the same way. Every post game loss he trots out the "we got behind and were playing catch up the rest of the game" speech. Suggesting if we played a little bit harder a little more intense, the results would be different. To me that's not coaching. Correction; it's timbits coaching, "come on boys, try your best"! so what is basically being said is: McD, Drai didnt try hard enough, didn't put enough effort in, didn't care enough? Do you seriously think those 2 aren't pissed and embarrassed by the last 3 games? Checkout drai's post game sarcasm speech on sportsnet if you think they enjoyed being humiliated and embarassed. A week ago everyone is saying these guys have bought into Tipp's system, now are you saying for this series they cashed out? I think they tried Tipp's system, it didn't work, they tried it again, it didn't work, and again? you get the idea?? I dont now about you but when i'm told to do something that i know is doomed to fail, even with the best will in the world I cant quite summon the same level of effort compared to when i fully believe in what i'm doing. One team this past week looks like it has complete faith in the system they're playing, the other?? i'll let you decide which one is which
|
|
|
Post by Bronco73 on Mar 4, 2021 10:18:03 GMT -7
You guys would make good assistant coaches to Tipp as he obviously thinks the same way. Every post game loss he trots out the "we got behind and were playing catch up the rest of the game" speech. Suggesting if we played a little bit harder a little more intense, the results would be different. To me that's not coaching. Correction; it's timbits coaching, "come on boys, try your best"! so what is basically being said is: McD, Drai didnt try hard enough, didn't put enough effort in, didn't care enough? Do you seriously think those 2 aren't pissed and embarrassed by the last 3 games? Checkout drai's post game sarcasm speech on sportsnet if you think they enjoyed being humiliated and embarassed. A week ago everyone is saying these guys have bought into Tipp's system, now are you saying for this series they cashed out? I think they tried Tipp's system, it didn't work, they tried it again, it didn't work, and again? you get the idea?? I dont now about you but when i'm told to do something that i know is doomed to fail, even with the best will in the world I cant quite summon the same level of effort compared to when i fully believe in what i'm doing. One team this past week looks like it has complete faith in the system they're playing, the other?? i'll let you decide which one is which I didn't see any bruises on Drai or McDavid's bodies when they were interviewed. In fact the only one with any body damage is Yamamoto who got hit by his own team mates skate. Drai's sarcastic presser he also said that his team got outbattled at every corner and every fight for the puck. They lost every battle because they were not invested enough. "It hurts to win"
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 11:59:42 GMT -7
Correct Bronc, My question is why weren't they invested? 1. They dont care/ give a Mangiapane? 2. it's futile, leafs are just so superior in talent it's like pitting williams and Haas vs Mercedes? or 3. Maybe they don't think the system they're implementing works against TO's system, ie banging your head repeatedly against a brick wall expecting a brekthrough also hurts? I find the 1st hard to believe of 2 guys as driven as McD and Drai, 2 is something I also dont believe especially when Mathews and andersson didnt play and when they did weren't a factor. that leaves 3. I'm open to other suggestions/options, but IMO Tipp is a middling coach and thus can only coach us to that level. Middling NHL coach is still far higher than any of us will ever achieve but if this teams wants the ultimate prize we are going to have think big as well
|
|
|
Post by Bronco73 on Mar 4, 2021 12:05:01 GMT -7
Hmm.. I'd completely agree with you on the Tippet's system is a failure idea IF they displayed this for the entire season. But, they didn't. In fact it's the exact opposite. In their last 16 games including this three game thrashing they are 11-5. If the system is failing I can't see them doing that well. How had a middling coach gotten this team to second in the division and 3'd overall in the league before this Toronto nuke? They were outworking and beating everybody they played. To me it makes more sense that the guys on the ice got complacent, and expected wins without putting the work forth.
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 12:17:42 GMT -7
Btw, the first 4 games we played TO we went 2-2 and IMO were the better team in 3 or even all of those games. however, 1 coach went away looked at some video and came up with a plan to beat the other team and boy did they ever! Does this sound like a guy who has the answers and a plan?
<iframe src='//players.brightcove.net/1704050871/rkedLxwfab_default/index.html?videoId=6236050431001' allowfullscreen frameborder=0></iframe>
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 12:35:53 GMT -7
Hmm.. I'd completely agree with you on the Tippet's system is a failure idea IF they displayed this for the entire season. But, they didn't. In fact it's the exact opposite. In their last 16 games including this three game thrashing they are 11-5. If the system is failing I can't see them doing that well. How had a middling coach gotten this team to second in the division and 3'd overall in the league before this Toronto nuke? They were outworking and beating everybody they played. To me it makes more sense that the guys on the ice got complacent, and expected wins without putting the work forth. As I mentioned before, with McD and Drai we should expect to be above .500 regardless, especially as the other teams in our div are nowhere near as talented or well coached. I've no doubt Tipp's system does work against some teams, but when the rubber hits the road and you play with the big boys for all the marbles, you have to outsmart the opp, especially if the talent differential is minimal. Then the team with the best tactics will win. I dont see anything in Tipp's interviews that suggest he has some secret weapon he's going to unleash next time we meet the leafs (thankfully only 2x more till playoffs). Instead he just talks about effort, again thats not a plan. If you listen to the better coaches, they will state the breakdowns, what went wrong and some will even suggest ways to combat it next time. Tipp just says, we have to be better, WTF IS THAT? Todd Maclellan was run out of town here mostly because PC failed him, but when he was coach and we lost, he would give you an analysis of the loss and how we could avoid repeating it next time. against SJ in playoffs we got stomped 7-0, the next game we stomped them and sailed into the next round where we met an equally tough Ducks team and if it werent for refs we'd have stuffed them too. that is the sign of a coach who can adjust to another teams plan. Detractors will say he never won with a stacked SJ team and I'm not saying he was a brilliant coach either, but at least he could win a few rounds, I'm just not sure Tipp can and unless he has an epithany when we meet TO in the playoffs, he'd better have a better plan than the one he does now. I dont think he has though, but we will see??
|
|
|
Post by neufab94 on Mar 4, 2021 14:40:35 GMT -7
I have several questions:
- I wonder if Torts was the Oiler coach how he would handle this last 3 game set?! We would have some awesome sound bites! - I wonder if Tippet even knows that he gets a time out every game? - Since Tippet seems to have no desire to have a second PP unit why not just stack the 1st unit and alternate JP and Yamamoto instead of Chiasson as has been mentioned? - As already suggested, why would you place the newest/youngest/most inexperienced defenceman on his off wing? - Does Tippet have any grasp on the BOA and how completely crushing the flames would win him some favor with the fans? - Why not run up the score when you get the chance as if any team would ever show mercy? This shows weakness! Take it when you can. - Does the team now realize that they are not owed a win no matter how often they play the same team? - Where is the fight and determination, and push back?
This is certainly memories of Chicago, let's see how they respond.
|
|
|
Post by mrtea on Mar 4, 2021 14:41:34 GMT -7
The elephant in the room that we are missing here is that we are not getting consistent goaltending from either one of our tenders. They are either brilliant or terrible and that affects a teams mojo in a big way. a brilliant goalie can steal a game that a team should have lost, was not seeing any brilliance in any of the leaf games. I know we are all aware of the goaltending issue, so why am I not seeing it mentioned in the last few posts? We need better personnel in two or three positions and then we will be contenders. This year we all know Holland's hands were tied financially, so we have to expect what just happened to us every once in a while. Maybe the team needs this to keep them sharp and competing at a higher level. we should never feel that we are good enough the way we are, we should always strive to be better.
|
|
|
Post by Bronco73 on Mar 4, 2021 15:27:26 GMT -7
The elephant in the room that we are missing here is that we are not getting consistent goaltending from either one of our tenders. They are either brilliant or terrible and that affects a teams mojo in a big way. a brilliant goalie can steal a game that a team should have lost, was not seeing any brilliance in any of the leaf games. I know we are all aware of the goaltending issue, so why am I not seeing it mentioned in the last few posts? We need better personnel in two or three positions and then we will be contenders. This year we all know Holland's hands were tied financially, so we have to expect what just happened to us every once in a while. Maybe the team needs this to keep them sharp and competing at a higher level. we should never feel that we are good enough the way we are, we should always strive to be better. well I for one didn't bring it up because we have an existing thread dealing with the goaltending subject. This one is a Tippet dedicated thread so I was trying to keep it specific to Tippet. That being said you are bang on, goaltending is huge. Almost every loss we've had this season is directly attributed to defensive breakdowns followed by atrocious goaltending.
|
|
|
Post by AlwaysOil on Mar 4, 2021 15:35:38 GMT -7
The elephant in the room that we are missing here is that we are not getting consistent goaltending from either one of our tenders. They are either brilliant or terrible and that affects a teams mojo in a big way. a brilliant goalie can steal a game that a team should have lost, was not seeing any brilliance in any of the leaf games. I know we are all aware of the goaltending issue, so why am I not seeing it mentioned in the last few posts? We need better personnel in two or three positions and then we will be contenders. This year we all know Holland's hands were tied financially, so we have to expect what just happened to us every once in a while. Maybe the team needs this to keep them sharp and competing at a higher level. we should never feel that we are good enough the way we are, we should always strive to be better. well I for one didn't bring it up because we have an existing thread dealing with the goaltending subject. This one is a Tippet dedicated thread so I was trying to keep it specific to Tippet. That being said you are bang on, goaltending is huge. Almost every loss we've had this season is directly attributed to defensive breakdowns followed by atrocious goaltending. Yep. Pretty much sums it up. Feel like I wasted a lot of posts that could be covered by this.😁
|
|
onebit
Oilers Roster
Posts: 291
|
Post by onebit on Mar 4, 2021 15:48:25 GMT -7
The elephant in the room that we are missing here is that we are not getting consistent goaltending from either one of our tenders. They are either brilliant or terrible and that affects a teams mojo in a big way. a brilliant goalie can steal a game that a team should have lost, was not seeing any brilliance in any of the leaf games. I know we are all aware of the goaltending issue, so why am I not seeing it mentioned in the last few posts? We need better personnel in two or three positions and then we will be contenders. This year we all know Holland's hands were tied financially, so we have to expect what just happened to us every once in a while. Maybe the team needs this to keep them sharp and competing at a higher level. we should never feel that we are good enough the way we are, we should always strive to be better. I'm not sold that it's goaltending MrTea. Not that a great goalie wouldn't help in most situations but Dominic Hasek wouldn't have saved them these past three games. What I saw was a Leafs team that stood 4 on the line and flat out refused Oiler entry whereas the Oilers practically laid out the red carpet for the Leafs. I saw the Leafs make effortless zone exits. One or two passes and on the attack they went. Often on odd man rushes. The Oilers on the other hand, made 3-5 'D to D' passes often flubbing one which resulted in a d-zone turnover and more Leaf attacking. I saw one team playing at smooth, fluid Lamborghini speed while the other kept popping the clutch on their Honda Accord. For me, the elephant in the room is the lack of killer instinct in this team. Letting off against the Flames, played 7 d-men, playing 2 d-men on PP's in one goal games, sitting your best puck-moving d-man 2/3 games, taking the net away from a goalie that puts in a 40 save performance, refusal to keep a hot line together, refusing to play 2 PP units (except in garbage time). I'm seeing a system that plays "to not lose" which yes, will work against lesser talented teams also trying not to lose but it won't go far against good teams who play to win. As always, just my ONE-BIT.
|
|
brolo
Bakersfield Roster
Pissy Oilers Fan
Posts: 134
|
Post by brolo on Mar 4, 2021 16:16:58 GMT -7
Oh and don’t forget they got Andersen and Mustachio Matthews back and we got Neal... and Turris... barf.
That was embarrassing.
Must. Crush. fLames.
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 18:49:49 GMT -7
goaltending has been bad last 3 games, but maybe that's a good thing in that great goaltending can mask a lot of flaws (see markstrom/flames) yet ultimately is only ever a bandaid and not a solution. I was a bit unfair throwing Tipp under the boss as I'm not sure Sather/Bowman combined could have coached us to 3 wins against leafs but I do see him as one of the several flaws in this team along with goaltending and a few others. The point I was trying to make is that this team should be setting its sites a lot higher than just making playoffs. We were the best canadian team last year and I fully expected us to be this year (maybe that's naivete but last year's results suggested we were).Then playins/offs hit and we suddenly folded like a cheap tent. This year we have been given a golden ticket opportunity to make the conference finals which is 1 series from the SC final where anything can happen and Tipp is talking of making playoffs? Do you think the leafs are thinking lets just make the playoffs or even Jets for that matter? I say Kuzmenko thaat Mangiapane, we should be stating conf finals as minimum expectation and go from there. We Have Connor and freakin Leon, we should be thinking cups by now. Do you think Crosby and Malkin are thinking lets just make playoffs? Toews and kane? Toews almost beheaded is GM in public for uttering something along the lines that making the playoffs was a bonus last year! Anyway, that where my head is that i wont bring it up anymore. cheers!
|
|
|
Post by oilyfan on Mar 4, 2021 21:12:10 GMT -7
Hi all - I know you're all mad - me too ... sort of. Bottom line is the Leafs played awesome. They were relentless - they got great goaltending, and they made smart plays. Right now, they are the best team in the North, and its' really not close. Not Tippetts' fault. As drtaf said, doesn't matter who our coach was going into these three games, results would of been the same.
Or put another way - knowing my handle here so you know where I come from, do any of you (who can remember) honestly think an 80's Jets team could have beaten an 80's Oilers team with a different coach? We lost what, 3 or 4 series FOUR straight to the Oilers. It wasn't 'coaching' trust me, and neither was this. The Leafs are a much better team than us. Period. And when they play their best, then just like those 80's Oilers against the Jets, we have no chance of winning. I didn't see any Tippett complaints when we went 11 and 2 and vaulted into second place. I see no line changes, defensive adjustments, or goaltending changes, that would have made a difference these last three games - nothing. Doesn't matter what Tipp did, result would have been the same.
|
|
|
Post by drtaf on Mar 4, 2021 21:26:58 GMT -7
Hi all - I know you're all mad - me too ... sort of. Bottom line is the Leafs played awesome. They were relentless - they got great goaltending, and they made smart plays. Right now, they are the best team in the North, and its' really not close. Not Tippetts' fault. As drtaf said, doesn't matter who our coach was going into these three games, results would of been the same. Or put another way - knowing my handle here so you know where I come from, do any of you (who can remember) honestly think an 80's Jets team could have beaten an 80's Oilers team with a different coach? We lost what, 3 or 4 series FOUR straight to the Oilers. It wasn't 'coaching' trust me, and neither was this. The Leafs are a much better team than us. Period. And when they play their best, then just like those 80's Oilers against the Jets, we have no chance of winning. I didn't see any Tippett complaints when we went 11 and 2 and vaulted into second place. I see no line changes, defensive adjustments, or goaltending changes, that would have made a difference these last three games - nothing. Doesn't matter what Tipp did, result would have been the same. You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team
|
|
|
Post by Bronco73 on Mar 4, 2021 22:32:46 GMT -7
Hi all - I know you're all mad - me too ... sort of. Bottom line is the Leafs played awesome. They were relentless - they got great goaltending, and they made smart plays. Right now, they are the best team in the North, and its' really not close. Not Tippetts' fault. As drtaf said, doesn't matter who our coach was going into these three games, results would of been the same. Or put another way - knowing my handle here so you know where I come from, do any of you (who can remember) honestly think an 80's Jets team could have beaten an 80's Oilers team with a different coach? We lost what, 3 or 4 series FOUR straight to the Oilers. It wasn't 'coaching' trust me, and neither was this. The Leafs are a much better team than us. Period. And when they play their best, then just like those 80's Oilers against the Jets, we have no chance of winning. I didn't see any Tippett complaints when we went 11 and 2 and vaulted into second place. I see no line changes, defensive adjustments, or goaltending changes, that would have made a difference these last three games - nothing. Doesn't matter what Tipp did, result would have been the same. You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team apparently it's vancouver. they just beat the team that beat us.
|
|
|
Post by GrooveyAsh on Mar 4, 2021 22:34:12 GMT -7
Hi all - I know you're all mad - me too ... sort of. Bottom line is the Leafs played awesome. They were relentless - they got great goaltending, and they made smart plays. Right now, they are the best team in the North, and its' really not close. Not Tippetts' fault. As drtaf said, doesn't matter who our coach was going into these three games, results would of been the same. Or put another way - knowing my handle here so you know where I come from, do any of you (who can remember) honestly think an 80's Jets team could have beaten an 80's Oilers team with a different coach? We lost what, 3 or 4 series FOUR straight to the Oilers. It wasn't 'coaching' trust me, and neither was this. The Leafs are a much better team than us. Period. And when they play their best, then just like those 80's Oilers against the Jets, we have no chance of winning. I didn't see any Tippett complaints when we went 11 and 2 and vaulted into second place. I see no line changes, defensive adjustments, or goaltending changes, that would have made a difference these last three games - nothing. Doesn't matter what Tipp did, result would have been the same. You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team I think in the defense and goaltending department, the Leafs definitely outclass us.
|
|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 4, 2021 22:45:20 GMT -7
Hi all - I know you're all mad - me too ... sort of. Bottom line is the Leafs played awesome. They were relentless - they got great goaltending, and they made smart plays. Right now, they are the best team in the North, and its' really not close. Not Tippetts' fault. As drtaf said, doesn't matter who our coach was going into these three games, results would of been the same. Or put another way - knowing my handle here so you know where I come from, do any of you (who can remember) honestly think an 80's Jets team could have beaten an 80's Oilers team with a different coach? We lost what, 3 or 4 series FOUR straight to the Oilers. It wasn't 'coaching' trust me, and neither was this. The Leafs are a much better team than us. Period. And when they play their best, then just like those 80's Oilers against the Jets, we have no chance of winning. I didn't see any Tippett complaints when we went 11 and 2 and vaulted into second place. I see no line changes, defensive adjustments, or goaltending changes, that would have made a difference these last three games - nothing. Doesn't matter what Tipp did, result would have been the same. You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team I think Toronto's lineup is much better than ours.
|
|
|
Post by fogolin2 on Mar 4, 2021 22:52:13 GMT -7
You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team I think in the defense and goaltending department, the Leafs definitely outclass us. Also, they have Jason Spezza and Joe Thornton playing roles that on our team are Jujar Khaira and Gaetan Haas McD-Dra-Nuge-JP(?) vs Matthews-Marner-Tavares-Nylander is pretty even, but after that the Leafs are better. And, you're right about tending and defense
|
|
onebit
Oilers Roster
Posts: 291
|
Post by onebit on Mar 4, 2021 22:55:51 GMT -7
You think the leafs talent is that much superior to ours?? I don’t but I guess that’s where I May be way off base, I think we have fairly comparable teams. I’m interested to hear what others think vis a vis talent wise, not who is the better team because there is no longer a doubt who is the better team apparently it's vancouver. they just beat the team that beat us. Pretty horrible night for us. Jets win a 3-pointer, Canucks win, Flames win. Our battle for 1-2 has become a battle for "hope we make it".
|
|