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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Mar 7, 2021 19:36:46 GMT -7
Yeah, for the record, I’m still glad we didn’t get/go after thornton At league minimum of $700K, why not? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Post by drtaf on Mar 8, 2021 10:03:00 GMT -7
I guess i should clarify, indeed at $700k he's worth having around just to make the coffee and chat to the boys, but at the time he was available, I was expecting him to sign for $1M+$2M. i did not expect him to go to leafs, NVM give oilers a chance to sign him, I'm guessing no one else wanted him so he signed with the leafs to squeeze out another season and maybe after this year he may squeeze another year out, but he's also taking up a roster spot and that counts against signing him as well.
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onebit
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Post by onebit on May 23, 2021 23:18:50 GMT -7
Well, here we are, down 3:0 to the Jets and yeah, I'm pissed and when I'm pissed, I rant.
When I started this thread in March, I was mostly concerned about 4 things...
1) Entering the playoffs forced to ride one goalie. Not that this series is on Smith, he's been really good but now, with backs against the wall, we have to play a 39 yr old in a back to back situation because our "other guy" has lost all confidence. Regardless what anybody says, when a player is struggling, you either trade him or let him PLAY through those struggles. Leaving him on the bench is short sighted and likely going to cost you long-term. What if Smith retires this summer, we go looking for 2 goalies?
2) No killer instinct. A habit that I am convinced develops when a team/coach makes it a policy to let off the gas with big leads. I posit that the best way to "lock down" a 4:1 game is to make it 5:1, and then 6:1.
3) The damn blender/functioning as a one line team. Last year, the best (hottest) line up was broken up just before the playoffs. We saw what happened. This year, the lines look like they're put together by lottery. When did "consistency" and "chemistry" become dirty words?
4. Relying FAR to heavily on a select group of players. Over 30 minutes for Nurse, 28 for Leon, 26 for McDavid, and it's not even CLOSE to the first time. You know why we don't get secondary scoring? Because the other lines rarely see the ice. Not to mention the fact that even our top guys often look gassed by the 50 minute mark. They're awesome, yes, but they're also human.
And since I'm here, in the first 2 games of this series, we couldn't get shots through the sticks and bodies. You know who's really good at getting shots through? Evan Bouchard. If we're willing to gamble with Ryan McLeod on the second line, why not give Bouch a shot to provide some much needed offense?
Bottom line: I've fallen completely in line with drtaf. Tippet, imo, is great at getting a low talent team into the playoffs but I am 100% NOT convinced that he can lead the Oilers to a Stanley Cup.
Sorry this got long but like I said, I'm pissed.
And that's my ONE DAMN BIT!!!
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Post by oilyfan on May 24, 2021 7:11:19 GMT -7
Good rant one-bit. I agree especially with #2 - when it was 4 to 1 I said "Make it 5 to 1 now to put the game away', and when Wheeler scored I said "Well, he'll call a time-out to settle the troops down". In his post game presser he gave the (very) lame excuse that there was TV time out coming? Really? Who gives a #*(@ about a TV Time out. He need to settle his troops and re-focus them RIGHT THEN AND THERE, period. Anyone could see that. I could, and I'm a Fogolin2 fan. Why couldn't he see it? And you know, Tipp is a great reg season coach, but he's never done anything with his teams in the playoffs - two somewhat successful runs, one with Dallas, one with Phoenix (before they became Arizona) out of 10 trips to the playoffs. Once he was swept (soon to be twice after we get our butts kicked today and make no mistake it will be a blowout - I'm thinking 6 to 0 could even be worse), three times if you include the play in last year he won only 1 game in the playoffs.
I was hoping when our coaching search began that we landed Tippett - but it's time to move on. I doubt we'll fire him and I'm ok with that - last I heard he signed a 3 year deal - so let him coach here one more year, the hire someone else
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onebit
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Post by onebit on May 24, 2021 8:47:44 GMT -7
Good rant one-bit. I agree especially with #2 - when it was 4 to 1 I said "Make it 5 to 1 now to put the game away', and when Wheeler scored I said "Well, he'll call a time-out to settle the troops down". In his post game presser he gave the (very) lame excuse that there was TV time out coming? Really? Who gives a #*(@ about a TV Time out. He need to settle his troops and re-focus them RIGHT THEN AND THERE, period. Anyone could see that. I could, and I'm a Fogolin2 fan. Why couldn't he see it? And you know, Tipp is a great reg season coach, but he's never done anything with his teams in the playoffs - two somewhat successful runs, one with Dallas, one with Phoenix (before they became Arizona) out of 10 trips to the playoffs. Once he was swept (soon to be twice after we get our butts kicked today and make no mistake it will be a blowout - I'm thinking 6 to 0 could even be worse), three times if you include the play in last year he won only 1 game in the playoffs. I was hoping when our coaching search began that we landed Tippett - but it's time to move on. I doubt we'll fire him and I'm ok with that - last I heard he signed a 3 year deal - so let him coach here one more year, the hire someone else Thanks Oilyfan. Tbh, my biggest complaint right now is that we don't have "troops". We have 4 "go to guys" and a bunch of side-notes; only I am not putting it on the players anymore. I keep hearing about players being "inconsistent" and I ask, how could anybody expect anything different? Koskinen, good couple of games, loses the net for 10 days. He's inconsistent. RNH. He's a center, no a 1st line winger, no, second line winger. He's inconsistent. Bear. He's third pairing. No, first pairing. He's inconsistent. Draisaitl. He's the driver of his own line. No, he's Robin to McDavid's Batman. He's lazy, he's inconsistent. Kassian. He's a 1st line speed guy. No, third line checking guy. Inconsistent. Nygaard, Neal, Haas, Ennis... in, out, in, out... they're inconsistent. It's a 60 minute game, unless we're ahead 5 - 1 in the third. Then it becomes a 50 minute game and guys who are running good and gaining confidence can now take a seat. Consistency is a habit. It's learned, it's not innate. This team doesn't have it because this coach doesn't teach it. I dont care who Holland brings in this summer, until coach stops putting lines together by lottery, this team is never taking the next step. And that's my ONE-BIT.
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Post by pillotte on May 24, 2021 9:10:25 GMT -7
Note to: Dave and KH: 1) Get someone, anyone that can win a faceoff. Even if you have to go to Amazon and get the book :Winning FaceOffs for Dummies". 2) Unfortunately the days for Neal, Chaisson and the like are over. Yes they're big but the game is way to fast for them now. We need guys like Anderson (Montreal) Wilson (Washington) big, mean and can skate. 3) Our 3 & 4 line cannot score maybe it's because they don't get icetime. If we're gonna lose to anyone at least it's not Calgary Vancouver or the Maple Laughs. The fat lady's warmin' up boys. We've got 1 more shot at staying in after that it's golf season. Hope KH has made some notes !
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Post by AlwaysOil on May 24, 2021 10:26:56 GMT -7
You ever watch Survivor. You know those dummies that get voted off with an immunity idol in their pocket. Tippet with a time out.
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Post by drtaf on May 24, 2021 11:55:36 GMT -7
First off, I suggested Last year Tipp Wasn’t the coach to take us deep in playoffs. He’s not a bad coach, he’s just not a good one, he’s Meh! It’s like watching someone’s grandad coach minor hockey. His only plan is to give McD and Drai and Nurse as much ice time as humanly possible and hope they rack up enough points so they can hang on and unfortunately this time they didn’t. (Btw Drai was a beast, McD not so much). Saying that KH did not do anything to help him this year and I know he had no cap space but neither did a bunch of other teams that managed to still improve at tdl. Personally, I’d rather KH swing and miss like he did with AA, than do nothing. We don’t need draft picks we need players who can contribute now while we still have McDrai in their prime. If we get swept tonight, kh can add a “good coach” to his shopping list for next year.
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Post by calioilersfan on May 24, 2021 12:30:40 GMT -7
IDK guys, HOW many coaches have to come through EDM before anyone realizes it's the players. Do we need to count? Millenial, millionaire babies that have to be coddled JUST right to give effort 50% of the time. Screw them. The ONLY reason to watch the Oilers is Mcd and that really doesn't make up for the pathitic lack of effort. I mean these guys play a kids game and make exorbitant amounts of money, yet they can't skate 100% for a 90 second shift. What a joke.
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Post by fogolin2 on May 24, 2021 12:41:27 GMT -7
IDK guys, HOW many coaches have to come through EDM before anyone realizes it's the players. Do we need to count? Millenial, millionaire babies that have to be coddled JUST right to give effort 50% of the time. Screw them. The ONLY reason to watch the Oilers is Mcd and that really doesn't make up for the pathitic lack of effort. I mean these guys play a kids game and make exorbitant amounts of money, yet they can't skate 100% for a 90 second shift. What a joke. Players, coaches, and GM's have come and gone, yet the roster problem persists...hmmm...I WONDER WHAT IT COULD BE?!!? jk. I don't wonder.
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Post by AlwaysOil on May 24, 2021 12:48:45 GMT -7
I’m not seeing a lack of effort on the players. What I am seeing is one team that knows how to play playoff hockey with a very good goalie, and one that plays like it’s the regular season. The millennial thing I don’t buy. We are a year average age older than the Jets and not much different than most NHL teams.
Experience, leadership and coaching is what we need. Our leadership group has very little playoff experience. I saw the Jets start holding, doing late hits and all that other stuff that doesn’t get called in the playoffs. We just played how we always played. Someone has to teach our players that, or they can learn it over several playoff years. Lessons are repeated until learned. Not sure we learned from Chicago from what I’m seeing.
I do agree that this is not all on the coach as the number of coaches we’ve had with the same results would suggest we’ve either hired a lot of bad coaches or our players are just not that coachable. Also I have no idea what Tippet has been telling the players.
My biggest complaint about Tippet in the playoffs is we have a “just play our game” plan where the Jets clearly had a plan tailored to beating us.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on May 24, 2021 13:18:06 GMT -7
I’m not seeing a lack of effort on the players. What I am seeing is one team that knows how to play playoff hockey with a very good goalie, and one that plays like it’s the regular season. The millennial thing I don’t buy. We are a year average age older than the Jets and not much different than most NHL teams. Experience, leadership and coaching is what we need. Our leadership group has very little playoff experience. I saw the Jets start holding, doing late hits and all that other stuff that doesn’t get called in the playoffs. We just played how we always played. Someone has to teach our players that, or they can learn it over several playoff years. Lessons are repeated until learned. Not sure we learned from Chicago from what I’m seeing. I do agree that this is not all on the coach as the number of coaches we’ve had with the same results would suggest we’ve either hired a lot of bad coaches or our players are just not that coachable. Also I have no idea what Tippet has been telling the players. My biggest complaint about Tippet in the playoffs is we have a “just play our game” plan where the Jets clearly had a plan tailored to beating us. This is a fair and accurate assessment that I can agree with.
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Post by calioilersfan on May 24, 2021 13:24:38 GMT -7
Coaches are glorified babysitters with these players. It's not just hockey but ALL pro sports these days. It's not about the X and Os, it's about getting the over-paid athletes on your roster to perform on a nightly basis. Some coaches are definitely "better" than others, but I would argue these days is more about motivating the players than the X and Os.
Bad drafting, bad development, the water? I don't what's up with Edmonton, but it bad.
Honestly, I don't know how some of these guys can look themselves in the mirror at night getting paid the amount of money they do and perform so terribly. Perhaps it's the entitled generation. IDK.
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Post by blackhawk216 on May 24, 2021 13:29:15 GMT -7
Quite a lot of after the fact BS posted on here today. OK, I get it, that was a dismal attempt to hold onto a 4-1 lead, but **** happens occasionally. What I see is two fairly evenly matched teams with Winnipeg having the more lethal top six group, backed by a goalie who is clearly one of the best in the NHL, but one that we still put four goals past last night......and have put lots past all season long.
All I can say is that I have not seen a lack of effort on our players during this series. Whether most of them are good enough or not is another matter, but where there is effort, there is always hope, not much hope currently at 0-3 down, but some.
On the bigger picture, this past two seasons of likely play off disappointment should at least illustrate to KH where the freed up dollars next season should be spent. And if we have to give up a first rounder + additional + whatever else to get some experience to play alongside Connor and Leon lets do it Ken.
It is likely that any player drafted from here on in and towards the time that Connor or Leon become free agents won't have an impact during Connor's or Leon's time in Edmonton, unless we strike very lucky.
I doubt any of us expected the Oilers to be dominant in the play offs this season, but the excuses are running out for next year, right?
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onebit
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Post by onebit on May 24, 2021 14:08:09 GMT -7
IDK guys, HOW many coaches have to come through EDM before anyone realizes it's the players. Do we need to count? Millenial, millionaire babies that have to be coddled JUST right to give effort 50% of the time. Screw them. The ONLY reason to watch the Oilers is Mcd and that really doesn't make up for the pathitic lack of effort. I mean these guys play a kids game and make exorbitant amounts of money, yet they can't skate 100% for a 90 second shift. What a joke. How many NHL caliber players have to come here and perform like AHL'ers before we realize there might be a coaching problem? Don't get me wrong, I think Tipp has done some good things here. I am just finally convinced that he's not the guy that can them to the next level.
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onebit
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Post by onebit on May 24, 2021 14:31:17 GMT -7
I’m not seeing a lack of effort on the players. What I am seeing is one team that knows how to play playoff hockey with a very good goalie, and one that plays like it’s the regular season. The millennial thing I don’t buy. We are a year average age older than the Jets and not much different than most NHL teams. Experience, leadership and coaching is what we need. Our leadership group has very little playoff experience. I saw the Jets start holding, doing late hits and all that other stuff that doesn’t get called in the playoffs. We just played how we always played. Someone has to teach our players that, or they can learn it over several playoff years. Lessons are repeated until learned. Not sure we learned from Chicago from what I’m seeing. I do agree that this is not all on the coach as the number of coaches we’ve had with the same results would suggest we’ve either hired a lot of bad coaches or our players are just not that coachable. Also I have no idea what Tippet has been telling the players. My biggest complaint about Tippet in the playoffs is we have a “just play our game” plan where the Jets clearly had a plan tailored to beating us. Your last sentence embodies my entire rant. Paul Maurice has an easily identifiable plan for success. I don't see one from Tippett at all. This entire year, playoffs included, his focus has ALWAYS been on the battles, NEVER on the war. That's why Smith got 80% of the starts. Its why the lineup changes constantly. It's also why McD, Drai and Nurse are hitting 25 - 30 minutes a night. And anybody who accuses me of being reactionist, is welcome to go back and read my original post in this thread. I'm not saying anything now that I didn't essentially say back then.
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Post by yuke on May 24, 2021 15:03:30 GMT -7
Quite a lot of after the fact BS posted on here today. OK, I get it, that was a dismal attempt to hold onto a 4-1 lead, but **** happens occasionally. What I see is two fairly evenly matched teams with Winnipeg having the more lethal top six group, backed by a goalie who is clearly one of the best in the NHL, but one that we still put four goals past last night......and have put lots past all season long. In fact, in the three games so far, forgetting the empty netters, the overall score is 6-5 to the Jets, ie, as stated two fairly evenly matched teams but they do have more genuine scoring options up front than the Oilers have. All I can say is that I have not seen a lack of effort on our players during this series. Whether most of them are good enough or not is another matter, but where there is effort, there is always hope, not much hope currently at 0-3 down, but some. On the bigger picture, this past two seasons of likely play off disappointment should at least illustrate to KH where the freed up dollars next season should be spent. And if we have to give up a first rounder + additional + whatever else to get some experience to play alongside Connor and Leon lets do it Ken. It is likely that any player drafted from here on in and towards the time that Connor or Leon become free agents won't have an impact during Connor's or Leon's time in Edmonton, unless we strike very lucky. I doubt any of us expected the Oilers to be dominant in the play offs this season, but the excuses are running out for next year, right? I agree with this. Every Oiler is playing with all they have, effort is there. I do believe a proven winner, someone who has been to the dance several times would be beneficial.
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Post by FloridaAltFan on May 24, 2021 15:17:35 GMT -7
Very interesting comments.
A team can win games 5 to 1 or 6 to 1, but they can't win the cup that way. The 80's oilers figured that out again'st the Islanders. The Oilers then had to figure out the sacrifice that the Islanders were willing to endure to win a dynasty.
One point is well taken, I have also raised it in the past. Playing forwards over 25 minutes a game is unusual game in game out. The Oil can exploit unprepared teams. In the playoffs it is a different season all together. Refs will let things go, most fans and players like it that way. It is a more physical game.
Like the Flames, the Oilers must figure out what it takes to win in the playoffs. IMO offense alone may win a series, more likely lose you a series, defenses win Stanley Cups. Smith had a bad 1/2 a game, is Kos the answer? I tend to think it is a team thing. After game interviews both Drai and McD indicated this much, the team needs to learn to defend leads. Often that means both players and fans have to be on pins and needles last few minutes of the game.
I really do get the impression that Oiler fans think they can win cups by offense alone, to hell with defense. I'm skeptical.
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Post by drtaf on May 24, 2021 16:22:44 GMT -7
I’ve been saying Well before last year’s playing that Tipp won’t lead us to the cup and my rationale was he was actually a fine x and o coach but that doesn’t make a cup winning coach, it’s the motivators that squeeze every last drop out of players that have success in playoffs and he just doesn’t seem to be able to do that. If the goal is to actually compete for a cup and not just make playoffs, we need to start thinking of someone who can motivate guys to go through the brick walls that inevitably arise in the playoffs. Tipp is not the guy imo. And saying millionaires shouldn’t need Motivation is Precisely the lack of understanding that Tipp exhibits. FWIW, Most millennials have no idea just what they can achieve unless they have someone who can reach in and extract the absolute very best. Eg, Latvia beats Canada 2-0, how does that happen? Ted Nolan coaches the absolute best from them. I’m not suggesting we go out and get Ted Nolan, but someone like him who can make players believe anything is possible
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Post by FloridaAltFan on May 24, 2021 16:40:46 GMT -7
I’ve been saying Well before last year’s playing that Tipp won’t lead us to the cup and my rationale was he was actually a fine x and o coach but that doesn’t make a cup winning coach, it’s the motivators that squeeze every last drop out of players that have success in playoffs and he just doesn’t seem to be able to do that. If the goal is to actually compete for a cup and not just make playoffs, we need to start thinking of someone who can motivate guys to go through the brick walls that inevitably arise in the playoffs. Tipp is not the guy imo. And saying millionaires shouldn’t need Motivation is Precisely the lack of understanding that Tipp exhibits. FWIW, Most millennials have no idea just what they can achieve unless they have someone who can reach in and extract the absolute very best. Eg, Latvia beats Canada 2-0, how does that happen? Ted Nolan coaches the absolute best from them. I’m not suggesting we go out and get Ted Nolan, but someone like him who can make players believe anything is possible Reminds me of Badger Bob. Although he didn't win a cup with Calgary, he created the core that did win the Cup. To motivate the team, he once put on motivational movies, one was a Rocky movie with Eye of the Tiger song. To say professional athletes don't need motivation is not understanding the human nature behind the athlete. Tippett did coach teams that didn't have a bunch of talent, and players that are on the bubble and could be moved to the minors often don't need the kind of motivation that a top notch NHL'r might require. The old days of motivation are over, new ways of motivating players must be found. Salaries don't seem to motivate once signed. Back in the days of the 80's Oilers, the team adopted hanging pictures of successful teams photos posing with the Cup like the Canadiens, etc... Messier transfered that tradition to NYRangers. Defense is earned not given.
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