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Post by Bronco73 on Jul 21, 2021 10:59:12 GMT -7
not sure why everybody is so concerned. Honestly I see it as them holding Bouchard back last season until after the expansion draft so they didn't have to protect him, plus we MIGHT get the shot to re-sign Barrie. We lose a stay at home D who is fantastic in his own end, physical, and a heck of a shot blocker. Now we gain somebody who plays more of the first lines game, fast puck moving, better passing, more offensive. While Larsson is a loss without question, we all knew this was coming when he wasn't re-signed or protected. And frankly I think they can find Larsson's replacement on the open market this year. This season is a buyers market for D-men. Are they talking to Suter maybe? Buy out Neal and you instantly have the dollars and cap room to fit him in. And he's just one of them, there are several. Look at this list: www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/defenseman/ufa/
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Post by drtaf on Jul 21, 2021 10:59:39 GMT -7
I'm not really criticising KH BH unless my accusation that he may be a little "too nice" and honest" for his own good amounts to "Harsh criticism"? In fact I said "lets see what he does" to replace him and i kinda agree with the above comment that in all the years of klef and Lars, we haven't moved the needle much, so maybe it is time to shake things up there? Keith was his first move, but KH has to make a lot more before pre-season starts and he has some cash to make his mark. My last comment was also not a criticism but an urging for KH to get down and dirty with the rest of the GM's. I Want kh to "rape and pillage" the other teams, I'm sick and tired of the oil either coming out even or losing trades I want KH to score a "touchdown" just like everyone else. As for Larsson leaving, I'm not blaming kh or Adam 1-bit for that. Lars has to do whats best for Lars, but the very widespread rumour was that, KH kinda had a handshake agreement in place and all this shows is that those aren't worth squat and kh to has to realise someone's word means nothing, especially when $millions are on the line. The reality is no one outside the 2 camps really knows what was "promised" or not so I'm not blaming Kenny on this and I still look forward to what he is building this year (but please no HYMAN)!!! I am with you most of the way, but there are a lot of assumptions in your post, eg "the very widespread rumour" etc. I find it hard to believe that a GM with the experience that KH has would fall for a "handshake agreement", but maybe your right, the point is, no one knows and rumours don't mean squat. Adam Larsson was an OK shut down defender, but he also gave up in my opinion a lot of dumb penalties..........I am not saying I am glad he has gone, I would rather he had stayed, but like I say, the facts (not rumours) are that KH was helpless to stop Larsson moving to wherever he wanted to unless he overpaid.........and that is precisely what KH has been criticised for doing with Keith............the guy can't win. Perhaps KH wasn't as "old school" as implied when "over paying" for Keith, maybe by then he knew the game might be up with Larsson? As I say, none of us know for sure. KH isn't perfect, but a darn sight better than his predecessor . I agree, i essentially said same thing in my post as well (bolded part). If he did know the game was up and assuming he did, then he basically chose to "sign and protect keith" over sign and protect Larsson which is a fairly "bold" move and points to him thinking a re-shaping is in order. Lots will happen over the next few weeks that will help elucidate what Kh's vision of the oil is moving forward, but even then, we'll only really know if his vision is 20-20 or if he needs "old man glasses" after the 2022 season is over. I'll be judging KH on whether or not we go beyond the first round next year. Caveat: i dont expect anyone to care, but as fans we all make judgements of our team one way or another and that's my basis. I'll also probably chime in on all the deals he makes between now and start of season but hey that's what makes us fans - we care!
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 11:07:54 GMT -7
Seattle hit a home run picking Larsson. Knocked their divisional rival Oilers down as well as giving themselves a solid Dman
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 11:12:13 GMT -7
not sure why everybody is so concerned. Honestly I see it as them holding Bouchard back last season until after the expansion draft so they didn't have to protect him, plus we MIGHT get the shot to re-sign Barrie. We lose a stay at home D who is fantastic in his own end, physical, and a heck of a shot blocker. Now we gain somebody who plays more of the first lines game, fast puck moving, better passing, more offensive. While Larsson is a loss without question, we all knew this was coming when he wasn't re-signed or protected. And frankly I think they can find Larsson's replacement on the open market this year. This season is a buyers market for D-men. Are they talking to Suter maybe? Buy out Neal and you instantly have the dollars and cap room to fit him in. And he's just one of them, there are several. Look at this list: www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/defenseman/ufa/We need RHD. Please, no Barrie unless he signs for under 4
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Post by Bronco73 on Jul 21, 2021 11:18:33 GMT -7
Seattle hit a home run picking Larsson. Knocked their divisional rival Oilers down as well as giving themselves a solid Dman I just don't see it as THAT big of a hit. Apparently the Oilers didn't either, they could have re-signed him at that same 4 I would think.
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Post by blackhawk216 on Jul 21, 2021 11:25:03 GMT -7
not sure why everybody is so concerned. Honestly I see it as them holding Bouchard back last season until after the expansion draft so they didn't have to protect him, plus we MIGHT get the shot to re-sign Barrie. We lose a stay at home D who is fantastic in his own end, physical, and a heck of a shot blocker. Now we gain somebody who plays more of the first lines game, fast puck moving, better passing, more offensive. While Larsson is a loss without question, we all knew this was coming when he wasn't re-signed or protected. And frankly I think they can find Larsson's replacement on the open market this year. This season is a buyers market for D-men. Are they talking to Suter maybe? Buy out Neal and you instantly have the dollars and cap room to fit him in. And he's just one of them, there are several. Look at this list: www.spotrac.com/nhl/free-agents/defenseman/ufa/We need RHD. Please, no Barrie unless he signs for under 4 So you want the NHL's top defensive scorer last season, and a player who fitted perfectly with Connor and Leon for under 4m? Good luck with that yuke, it ain't going to happen. Normally I am in favour of trying to keep some player's salary down, but we are paying Kassian 3.5m for not much, Kosk 4.5m for mediocrity, and you want to pay Barrie less than 4m? Seriously?
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Post by Bronco73 on Jul 21, 2021 11:32:53 GMT -7
Seattle hit a home run picking Larsson. Knocked their divisional rival Oilers down as well as giving themselves a solid Dman We need RHD. Please, no Barrie unless he signs for under 4 Ya who needs the highest scoring defenseman in the league last year and our highest +- defenseman as well when we can complain about the 10 point guy we lost instead. I don't understand your logic here. Larsson is replaceable.
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Post by drtaf on Jul 21, 2021 11:49:08 GMT -7
Given that kh’s “vision” seems to be go vet, I wouldn’t mind seeing him sign Suter for 2-3yrs. By everyone’s account he can also still play 20+ mins a night. Question is: what do people think is a reasonable cap hit given he’s still being paid handsomely by wild? I’d go as high as 3-5 to $4m per year since that’s what Larson was offered by kh amd IMO Suter is better than Larson albeit maybe not as physical?
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 12:06:50 GMT -7
We need RHD. Please, no Barrie unless he signs for under 4 So you want the NHL's top defensive scorer last season, and a player who fitted perfectly with Connor and Leon for under 4m? Good luck with that yuke, it ain't going to happen. Normally I am in favour of trying to keep some player's salary down, but we are paying Kassian 3.5m for not much, Kosk 4.5m for mediocrity, and you want to pay Barrie less than 4m? Seriously? I think he is overrated. Getting second assists for dropping a puck back to Leon or Connor on their rushes just doesn't do it for me.
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 12:07:43 GMT -7
Seattle hit a home run picking Larsson. Knocked their divisional rival Oilers down as well as giving themselves a solid Dman Ya who needs the highest scoring defenseman in the league last year and our highest +- defenseman as well when we can complain about the 10 point guy we lost instead. I don't understand your logic here. Larsson is replaceable. See my comment above
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Post by mrtea on Jul 21, 2021 12:12:56 GMT -7
Seattle hit a home run picking Larsson. Knocked their divisional rival Oilers down as well as giving themselves a solid Dman Ya who needs the highest scoring defenseman in the league last year and our highest +- defenseman as well when we can complain about the 10 point guy we lost instead. I don't understand your logic here. Larsson is replaceable. I agree Bronco, I'd love to see Barrie back. If we could get him in the $5mil range I'd be all over that. Not only was he the highest scoring Dman, but he could defend better than I thought he would. I hope the rumors we heard that he was considering coming back to the Oil are true. I guess we will find out soon enough. Regarding Larsson, yes he played some of his best hockey for us this last season, but as you say, he is replaceable. While his overall performance did improve last season, could he have been preparing for his upcoming UFA status? I always had the feeling he would have preferred playing somewhere else.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jul 21, 2021 12:16:49 GMT -7
Ya who needs the highest scoring defenseman in the league last year and our highest +- defenseman as well when we can complain about the 10 point guy we lost instead. I don't understand your logic here. Larsson is replaceable. I agree Bronco, I'd love to see Barrie back. If we could get him in the $5mil range I'd be all over that. Not only was he the highest scoring Dman, but he could defend better than I thought he would. I hope the rumors we heard that he was considering coming back to the Oil are true. I guess we will find out soon enough. Regarding Larsson, yes he played some of his best hockey for us this last season, but as you say, he is replaceable. While his overall performance did improve last season, could he have been preparing for his upcoming UFA status? I always had the feeling he would have preferred playing somewhere else. He is replaceable, but not easily replaceable. Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk
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Post by neufab94 on Jul 21, 2021 12:21:17 GMT -7
Larsson had some good games and was solid most of last year playing against Canadian teams that he got familiar with. I don't think the 2 previous years were as strong and actually Larsson gained his fair share of criticism. This is a replaceable loss and I for one saw him as a constant reminder of PC getting hosed on a trade.
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Post by Marshall Bruce Mathers III on Jul 21, 2021 12:24:06 GMT -7
Larsson had some good games and was solid most of last year playing against Canadian teams that he got familiar with. I don't think the 2 previous years were as strong and actually Larsson gained his fair share of criticism. This is a replaceable loss and I for one saw him as a constant reminder of PC getting hosed on a trade. Take the names out of that trade. First line LWer with locker room and attitude issues for a 20+ minute hard nosed shutdown dman that just had career point numbers. PC did NOT get hosed on the trade. Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk
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Post by mrtea on Jul 21, 2021 12:33:42 GMT -7
I agree Bronco, I'd love to see Barrie back. If we could get him in the $5mil range I'd be all over that. Not only was he the highest scoring Dman, but he could defend better than I thought he would. I hope the rumors we heard that he was considering coming back to the Oil are true. I guess we will find out soon enough. Regarding Larsson, yes he played some of his best hockey for us this last season, but as you say, he is replaceable. While his overall performance did improve last season, could he have been preparing for his upcoming UFA status? I always had the feeling he would have preferred playing somewhere else. He is replaceable, but not easily replaceable. Sent from my SM-G998W using Tapatalk He has to be replaceable because we have no choice in the matter. Larsson made his choice for better or worse and for Larsson I'm sure it will be better because he is choosing to go there. Luckily for us there are other free agents to pick from and we have a healthy crop of young Dmen chomping at the bit to play in Edmonton.
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Post by neufab94 on Jul 21, 2021 15:02:34 GMT -7
Some good options on this list... Barrie, Ceci, Montour... Are we replacing him with stick checkers? If Larsson's gone he's gone. I will not loose any sleep over it. I will be cheering for Nurse, Keith, and Lagesson as the hard nosed defensive types and on that list above I vote Barrie as long as he is reasonable so that there is some offensive threat on the blue-line. To say it's just secondary assists is pretty short sited since no other blue-liner has been able to cash in enough on those to lead the league for points by a defenseman.
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 15:52:39 GMT -7
Are we replacing him with stick checkers? If Larsson's gone he's gone. I will not loose any sleep over it. I will be cheering for Nurse, Keith, and Lagesson as the hard nosed defensive types and on that list above I vote Barrie as long as he is reasonable so that there is some offensive threat on the blue-line. To say it's just secondary assists is pretty short sited since no other blue-liner has been able to cash in enough on those to lead the league for points by a defenseman. Yeah, all the other Dmen play with CM and LD. The two man wrecking crew
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 15:56:02 GMT -7
If the price is reasonable I'd like to see Barrie signed. He made our PP a dangerous 2 threat option with his point shot and McD / Drac down low. And how did he do in the playoffs? We are in a fairly weak division. Getting into the playoffs now should not be an issue. Going anywhere in the playoffs is. Barrie does not help us in the post season.
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Post by Bronco73 on Jul 21, 2021 16:07:21 GMT -7
If the price is reasonable I'd like to see Barrie signed. He made our PP a dangerous 2 threat option with his point shot and McD / Drac down low. And how did he do in the playoffs? We are in a fairly weak division. Getting into the playoffs now should not be an issue. Going anywhere in the playoffs is. Barrie does not help us in the post season. how did Drai, Connor, Larsson, and every other oiler do in the playoffs? Apparently we should dump Connor and Leon as well? BTW Barrie got 1 point, but was a +1. Larsson got 2 points and was a -4. In fact Tyson Barrie was the only Oiler of the entire roster to have a +- that was actually on the plus side. Every single other player was 0 or negative. In fact he was also fourth highest in TOI in the playoffs ahead of even Connor, and still managed to beat the entire roster in +-. So by that standard he was the best of the best.
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Post by yuke on Jul 21, 2021 16:24:36 GMT -7
And how did he do in the playoffs? We are in a fairly weak division. Getting into the playoffs now should not be an issue. Going anywhere in the playoffs is. Barrie does not help us in the post season. how did Drai, Connor, Larsson, and every other oiler do in the playoffs? Apparently we should dump Connor and Leon as well? BTW Barrie got 1 point, but was a +1. Larsson got 2 points and was a -4. In fact Tyson Barrie was the only Oiler of the entire roster to have a +- that was actually on the plus side. Every single other player was 0 or negative. In fact he was also fourth highest in TOI in the playoffs ahead of even Connor, and still managed to beat the entire roster in +-. So by that standard he was the best of the best. Come on Bronco, using +/-. As your argument, that stat isn't worth a can of beans. Do you not believe we need to get bigger and tougher? We lost a big strong body checking Dman and people want to sign a small pokechecking Dman long term. He isn't signing cheap or short-term. Our 1-2 right side will be on the small side and #3 will be a rookie. Did anyone watch the playoffs and the size of the Dmen in the finals. Barrie is not what this team needs unless you trade Bouchard and Bear.
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